Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Tony M

New member
Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Rivermont Jeff,

Regarding your DO Saturation testing last week end in bass boat livewells full of fish, what were the results?

Are you doing the DO testing in actual tournament conditions when the boats arrive with fish in the afternoon at weigh-in to insure real time conditions?

Are you also testing the haul tank water full of fish when the weigh-master transports the fish to the release site?

And are you also testing the DO saturation and water temperature of the environmental water at the release site?

Keep in mind that if a livewell contains Rejuvenade livewell chemicals your DO test will be fatally flawed, usless. There appears to be a very potent oxidizer in the chemical mix that causes your DO meter to peg off the scale immediately upon insertion of the electrode into the water. This strong oxidizer (unknown) be the ingredient that causes fish to react and behave like they do when placed in livewells containing this additive. The hyper-active behavior we see may be caused by the adverse irritant effects of the strong oxidizer in the chemical concoction. We may be seeing something akin to putting the fish into a tank of acid and mistaking that behavior reaction as "rejuvenating the fish." I cannot think of anything else that would peg the meter off the scale immediately, but whatever it is certainly cannot be a good experience for the fish.
 

churly

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Since your obviously a pro, tell us what we should do to keep fish alive and healthy in the livewell. But to answer your question; yeah. He tested the tank, livewells, and weigh in bags. He posted those results. If rejuvenade is so bad, why was I able to keep my fish in great shape fir 10 hours in 95 degree heat?
 

Carl Guffey

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

churly - 7/29/2014 5:26 AM Since your obviously a pro, tell us what we should do to keep fish alive and healthy in the livewell. But to answer your question; yeah. He tested the tank, livewells, and weigh in bags. He posted those results. If rejuvenade is so bad, why was I able to keep my fish in great shape fir 10 hours in 95 degree heat?
</p>

<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">Because Rejuvenade has the same effect on fish as PCPdoes inhumans. The fish are out of their heads on a drug rush so they appear to be really lively at weigh-in. When the drug wears out, so do the fish. Primary cause of delayed mortality, adverse <font color="#660033">lactic acid</font> build up.</font></p>
 

Pointer 78

Active member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

This is not the first time I've read that Rejuvenade Is actually an irritant to fish. I wish I could find the paper I read (online)submitted bya Fisheries Biologist.</p>

</p>

Moving this thread to theConservation and EducationForum.</p>
 

Rivermont Jeff

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Thanks for the interest Tony I do appreciate you input.
Here are the results from this weekend tests that I performed. These were all Livewells with fish in them after several hours.
Livewells with fish
temp / DO2 level

79/7.4
76/7.7
67/3.6
75/6.4
73/6.1
72/6.2
84/3.4
78/6.9

The reason for the low water temp is that this was a night tx.
Release Tank
74/6.1 with no fish or O2
74/ 8.4 After fish introduced and O2 injected

I am testing tournament livewells with 5 fish in them.
The release tank is a 100 gallon tank the holds fish for a few minutes after they have been weighed just to give them a good dose of O2 before being released.
I have never seen any difference in water treated with Rejuvenade and water without.
I did not test the lake water other than the water that had been put in the release tank.
i do understand the reason for testing every tank or livewell or bag with fish because I have seen the rate that fish absorb O2 and it is an incredible rate.
I can tell everyone that water that is over 85 degree does have a low O2 level in livewells than cooler water.
Next test will be with and without hydrogen peroxide and how often should you add it and how long it is effective.
Let me know if you think of anything else to test.
Keep in mind any level below 5.0 fish begin to stress

If you can see one thing from these tests it should be that just because your water is cool doesnt mean that it is high in Oxygen! You must run your aerators continuously!
 

Rivermont Jeff

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

I must say that of every tournament I have tested aside the two low DO level numbers ,these guys took care of their fish better than any I have tested. I do not single out any one boat or list which boat was which level. After testing I have no idea who's livewell was what. I just look at the numbers. Just to give credit where it is due this was the CBA night tournament. Good job for Taking care of the fish!
 

niteowl

Member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

My livewell is one of those on the list. I had ran my aerators continuously all night. For some reason I had switched it to timer when I came out of water. I also turned my cool well system off about 2 hours before coming out of water. My love well was still good and cool and my O2 level was good. But I was really impressed when you had the meter in the live well and the aerator kicked on. The rate that the O2 level went up amazed me. I will definitely keep running my all the time now. Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer some questions for me. Lots of good info for sure.
 

Tony M

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Thanks Jeff-

Night tournament – calculated DO saturations estimating your barometric pressure @ 300 ft above sea level, 0.0 salinity. DO Saturation calculator http://water.usgs.gov/software/DOTABLES/

79/7.4 DO Sat 90%
76/7.7 ---------- 82%
67/3.6 ---------- 38% *** Non Functional Livewell
75/6.4 ---------- 74%
73/6.1 ---------- 69%
72/6.2 ---------- 69%
84/3.4 ---------- 43% *** Non Functional Livewell
78/6.9 ---------- 83%

Release tank

74/6.1 DO Sat 70% no fish or O2 in live well
74/ 8.4 DO Sat 97% fish and O2 injected *** Excellent DO for stocking density

Next time you test, please note your DO Saturation along with DO Concentration and water temperature please. Your barometric pressure should auto-adjust with your meter. I took a guess at your elevation above sea level and salinity.

I see only 2 non-functional livewells with deadly DO water quality. These 2 may have had a heavy stocking density that exceeded the aerator’s capabilities to safely oxygenate the livewell water, fish slowly suffocated in these 2 livewells. The other livewells probably had a lighter bio-load (less weight of the total catch) and were certainly not overstocked and had tolerable DO’s.

Night tournaments historically have higher mortality than day tournaments because photosynthesis stops at night and the DO falls. Mother Nature at work, aquatic plants use O2 at night, they don’t make it.
“The release tank is a 100 gallon tank the holds fish for a few minutes after they have been weighed just to give them a good dose of O2 before being released.” A few minutes of supplemental oxygen at the last moment may only palliative, but it’s be better than no oxygen for the last high stress boat ride of the night. That’s sort of like giving a cardiac patient a few minutes O2 in ER and discharging him.

Looking forward to reviewing you next DO testing with H2O2 additives.

You’re doing a great job as are most of the anglers wells that you tested, ya'll keep up your great work and research. No doubt your are opening many eyes to new unseen facts about livewell water quality.

“Keep in mind any level below 5.0 fish begin to stress”…

This 5 PPM DO concentration value your speak about is for fish living undisturbed in the steady state environment – highly stressed captured wild fish being transported in a confined livewell space is a very different matter, much more dissolved oxygen is necessary for high stress, high density transport conditions in the summer. Contact and ask any fish hatchery manager in any state or any bait dealer that sells live shiners about this, they know about this too. Unlike a fellow in a fishing tournament, if their fish die in transport, they are probably going to lose their job.

Check this out:

Oxygen – How much oxygen do Live bait and Tournament Game Fish need in summer livewells and bait tanks for all day transports?

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) stated many years ago in the last century that 5 PPM (parts per million) dissolved oxygen concentration is safe for fish living undisturbed in natural environmental waters.

The EPA says 5 PPM DO is an acceptable and satisfactory dissolved oxygen water quality parameter for wild fish living in the steady state environments in lakes, reservoirs, rivers, ponds, etc. provided the fish are not under constant, severe, extreme stress or in hostile overcrowded conditions commonly found in fishermen’s livewells and bait tanks every summer .

Fish hatcheries and fishery biologist say 100% dissolved oxygen saturation in necessary when transporting live mature and juvenile bait fish and mature tournament caught game fish is a very different matter when it comes to how much dissolved oxygen is required and necessary to have a safe live haul tank “livewell/bait tank” DO environment.

100% DO SATURATION OR GREATER (DO SUPERSATURATION) is required and considered minimal safe oxygenation by all fish hatcheries for all live fish transports… even for transporting only 1 fish (TP&WD “Share a Lunker”- Bass Conservation Program in Athens, TX).
DISSOLVED OXYGEN

What’s DO Concentration and DO Saturation all about?

DO Concentration is measured in parts per million (PPM DO or ml/L DO)

DO Saturation is measured in volume % Saturation (% DO Sat)

Unfortunately there is not simply one DO concentration water quality standard used to define minimal healthy dissolved oxygen environments for wild and cultured fish being transported and living normally in natural wild environments. That is because transport environments, stocking densities and water quality conditions vary and are not “steady state.” The DO requirements are different.

Live fish and live bait being transported must have more oxygen than normally found in the steady state environment. Fish are exposed to many environments in the wild and diverse, stressful captive environments. There are many water quality standards and requirements, specifically safe dissolved oxygen (DO) requirements that apply to different aquatic environments and specific live fish transport conditions. Oxygen deprivation kills in seconds and minutes in live transport tanks, boat livewells and bait tanks.

We’ve all heard of and are familiar with 5 PPM DO. This is the EPA DO Concentration Standard for lakes, rivers, ponds, etc. that applies to normal “steady state environments.”
Fishermen transporting captured live wild bait fish and mature tournament caught game fish, then transported all day, 6-8 hours, in small overcrowded aerated boat livewells in harsh summer tournament conditions is as far from the EPA “steady state environment” and controlled fish hatchery environment as we are from the moon. The difference is vast.

EPA Environmental Water and Waste Water – Professional
• Dissolved oxygen EPA Standards for Environmental Water – 5 PPM DO concentration
• Sewage waste water discharge – 5 PPM DO concentration

Home Aquarium -Tropical Fish – Non-Professional
• Aquarium water at home – 3-5 PPM DO concentration

Fish Culture – Professional
• Hatchery – pond water – 5 PPM DO concentration
• Hatchery – intensive live haul transport water – 100% DO Saturation
• Hatchery – intensive fish culture water – 100% DO Saturation
• Hatchery – intensive closed culture recirculating system water – 100% DO Saturation

Sport Fishermen – Boat livewell, Bait Tanks, tournament release Boat Tanks and Holding Tanks – Non-Professional
• Livewell water in sport fishing boat livewells (small water volume to high stocking density) – 100% DO Saturation
• Fishing tournament live release boat tanks – 100% DO Saturation
• Fishing tournament holding tanks – 100% DO Saturation

All State, Federal and private fish hatchery dissolved oxygen standards for live fish transport is 100% DO Saturation or DO Supersaturation >100% DO Saturation whether transporting one live fish or one thousand pounds of live fish. Contrary to some beliefs, you cannot harm, kill or poison live fish during 6-8 hour transport with “too much pure oxygen.”

Reversing that cellular oxygen debt as quickly as possible, seconds after landing the fish or netting the bait is vitally important for fish health if reducing acute and delayed tournament mortality is a goal.
You will need additional supplemental oxygen for this, can’t reverse sever cellular hypoxia with air (aeration) in the summer, this hypoxic insult is too severe and ongoing lasting for 7-8 hour bass boat ride all day. This chronic cellular suffocation takes a serious toll often resulting in tournament fish kills and post tournament disease in the summer. Hours of hypoxic stresses weakens the fish’s immune system predisposing it to disease - if it survives the initial hypoxic insult on tournament day. There is simply nothing positive about hypoxic stress and should be avoided at all cost.
 

Rivermont Jeff

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

The meter has an adjustment that I check and adjust if necessary before checking each livewell. I'm pretty sure that adjusts for Baro pressure and salinity.


(Quote)
All State, Federal and private fish hatchery dissolved oxygen standards for live fish transport is 100% DO Saturation or DO Supersaturation >100% DO Saturation whether transporting one live fish or one thousand pounds of live fish. Contrary to some beliefs, you cannot harm, kill or poison live fish during 6-8 hour transport with “too much pure oxygen.”

I have read that anything above 15 Mg/L will irritate the gills of fish in confined areas. Is there a risk of over oxygenating the water? At this point that has been my biggest concern as with a bottle of O2 and a high quality diffuser you can real super saturate the water.
 

Tony M

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

What is the brand name and mdl number of your DO meter?

You bring an interesting point to the discussion, please cite and post your reference where you read that “anything above 15 mg/L will irritate the gills of fish in confined areas.” I would like to learn more about this and I’m looking forward to reading the research you cited.

A few thoughts…

I have never seen or read that >15 mg/L DO concentration in normobaric http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/normobaric live transport conditions (fish confined in livewell or live haul tank) for 6-12-24-36 hour transport is toxic, sub-toxic or irritates fish gills in any fishery literature or discussions with fish hatchery managers or fish physiologist (the real fish doctors), but there’s a lot of fish physiology literature I have not seen or read out there too.

For strictly transport conditions, short term live transport and captivity is exactly the condition we are working with, >15 mg/L DO may be much more oxygen than needed to achieve 100% DO Saturation and waste oxygen.

The effects long term, steady state environments having sustained DO concentrations >15 mg/L is not an issue for our transport application.

Keeping in mind that oxygen gas is inexpensive, but oxygen is not free, you got to buy it, so why waste it unnecessarily. Air is not free either. After you buy air pumps, bubblers, water pumps, batteries, replacement batteries and pumps and battery chargers and AC electricity to run the battery chargers, the cost of oxygen may be less than the cost of air.

A quick DO calculation:

15 mg/L DO Concentration @ 75 F, (0.0 salinity in fresh water) and 775 mm/hg barometric pressure (your BP?) = 174% DO Saturation. Of course the more fish that are added to this livewell the lower the DO Saturation and DO Concentration… you’re right about fish using a lot of oxygen, aquatic bacteria in the livewell use a lot of O2 too. The drop in DO saturation and concentration will be directly proportional to the total living biomass metabolizing and consuming oxygen.

I doubt that 15 mg/L DO concentration would burn fish gill epithelial tissue during a live transport because O2 “concentration” is oxygen gas that is totally dissolved (no oxygen gas bubbles suspended in the water column). If fish were confined to a small volume of water containing 15 mg/L for days, weeks or months, there may be some toxic oxygen problems associated, but our application is very specific - short term transport only, not steady state for long periods of time in the natural environment or aquaculture.

Supersaturating water with oxygen is very different than supersaturating water with air, aeration and (nitrogen). Fish and bacteria in livewell water consume and metabolize oxygen, oxygen is depleted. Fish and bacteria do not consume or metabolize nitrogen. High dissolved nitrogen off-gases into the atmosphere and causes far more problems than oxygen supersaturation.

On the other hand micro-fine pure oxygen bubbles suspended in the livewell water column do Colace and stick to gill tissue. That toxic oxygen condition is caused by using micro-pore diffusers used in small volume livewells (10-25 gal).

Here’s how that works…

Toxic Oxygen Bubbles – Thousands of Micro-Fine Oxygen Bubbles that remain suspended in water columns in livewells and bait tanks can poison live bait and tournament fish in livewells and bait tanks. These tiny micro-bubbles are so small and light that they cannot escape the water surface and remain suspended in the water column.

A LESSON IN OXYGEN BUBBLE SIZE IN SPORTSMEN’S LIVEWELLS AND BAIT TANKS

1. Water and gas chemistry – micro-fine oxygen bubbles so tiny they remain suspended in the water column that make livewell water look milky transfer oxygen into solution fast and efficiently, quickly saturating/supersaturating water in seconds in a typical 20-30 gallon livewell or bait tank. Diffusers that make larger bubbles may take an extra minute or two to achieve the same DO saturation/supersaturation, but the final result is the same DO Saturation.

2. Fish Physiology and Fish Pathology – another matter that is seldom mentioned is that micro-fine oxygen bubbles negatively affect fish health – oxygen poisoning caused by continuous exposure to micro fine oxygen bubbles that coalesce to fish gills, cornea’s, scales, skin and fins can cause serious chemical burns and tissue damage resulting in blindness, death or disabling scar tissue if the fish survives the initial insult. Oxygen toxicity is usually caused by the fisherman’s ignorance of the device that makes the oxygen bubbles in his livewell water.

Micro-pore oxygen diffusers and livewell water pumps that entrain oxygen or air on the inlet side of a water pump’s impellers gas venturi device can produce thousands of suspended micro-fine gas bubbles in the livewell water column as the oxygen goes through the pump’s impellers. The size of an oxygen or air bubble can dramatically affect livewell water chemistry, gas transfer rates and dissolved gas concentrations.

There is a simple test you can do to know if any oxygen diffuser is causing this toxic oxygen bubble problem in livewells. Submerge your hand and arm into the livewell with the diffuser bubbling oxygen or the livewell oxygen generator making bubbles and see if the micro-fine oxygen bubbles are sticking to the hairs on your arm and hand. If your see tiny oxygen bubbles sticking – you are actually seeing how this works in real time. The longer the gas bubble is in direct contact with the gills, the more severe the oxidative burn. Gaseous oxygen is a very powerful oxidizer. The O2 bubbles are toxic, the dissolved oxygen gas is metabolized and is not toxic.

Do not confuse short term live fish transport conditions and safe DO ranges with long term DO ranges for steady state environmental lake and river conditions and requirements for steady state pond aquaculture conditions.
 

tripletdad

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

what we need is a DO meter installed on our boats. But what would the cost be and how dependable is it being in a livewell all the time?
 

Tony M

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

tripletdad,

I doubt that very many fishermen would be interested in buying a bass boat with a $200 OEM DO meter installed. Why would anyone do that?

What if---You have a limit of bass in your livewell in an August bass tournament next weekend at noon, 3 hours before weigh-in. Your livewell water temperature is 67 F – your aerator and livewell pump is working perfectly, huming like a champ, your livewell DO concentration is 3.6 mg/L and your DO saturation is 38% like exactly like Jeff test revealed in another bass boat livewell last week?

Would you recognize the DO test result as OK, maybe a little problem or a possible deadly problem in your livewell?

What would you recognize poor water quality that your livewell is not a non functional livewell?

Would you fix this water quality problem?

How would you fix this water quality?

You can bet your last dollar that DO meters and testing is not cool in tournament bass boat livewells full of fish in the summer… exposing serious livewell water quality problems and livewell hypoxia is not popular with tournament directors in the summer. Most tournament directors see that the public knows nothing about this sort of stuff. That’s just the way it is right now and has been the last 4 decades.

Jeff,

Thanks for the information about your DO meter.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you said. I thought you said that you had “read that anything above 15 Mg/L will irritate the gills of fish in confined areas.” I thought you may have read this in the scientific literature.

Is Joey Williamson a salesman with Southern Aquaculture Supply?

Would you please email Joey and ask him to cite where he got this DO information? Hopefully he would share the source and his reference with you.

I would like to learn more about this if verified in the scientific literature because that may be a real problem caused by a bass fisherman during a 6-8 hour livewell confinement and transport in his bass boat livewell in summer tournament conditions. I have heard things like this on fishing forums, sport radio talk shows, mentioned by outdoors’ writers in fishing magazines articles, professed by fishermen in testimonials and aerator salesmen, but I.ve never seen it scientifically verified or documented in any published fishery research or confirmed by any fish hatchery manager.

I do question the validity of Joey’s statement to you in live haul, short term transport conditions.

If this could really happen, the irritation and inflamed gill tissue may easily increase overall summer tournament bass mortality even higher that it is already. Gill inflammation would interfere with respiration and promote bacterial infection. Let’s find out where Joey got this information please.

Thanks for researching this.
 

Rivermont Jeff

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

I will email him to see where he got his info. I will also ask Randy Myers the Texas wildlife guy too and get back with you.
 

Tony M

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for following up with your references.

When you talk to these folks, it's important that you specify the "conditions" for >15 mg/L DO exposure: i.e. our application is limited and specific to short term live transport of mature tournament caught bass transported in bass boat and release boat livewells, normobaric conditions, max exposure time to >15 mg/L DO supersaturation is 7-8 hours total and summer environmental water temperatures in southern US. Of course traumatic capture and 7-8 hour transport stress is extremely high in summer tournament conditions.

These bass will experience maximum adrenaline production during capture, fight and livewell captivity and in the aftermath, floods toxic cortisol should be expected as adrenaline stores become depleted.

Specifying maximum 7-8 hours total exposure time to DO supersaturation, specie (bass), maturity, capture related stress, summer tournament conditions, etc. is all part of the "conditions." The normal steady state environments maintain much lower DO's for weeks and months. This is the norm for nature and pond aquaculture where normal DO's may range from 4-12 mg/L (below normal environmental DO to DO Supersaturation ) fluctuating relative to the day/night photo period cycle, that's Mother Nature in control. The swing in the DO range may occur in 10-12 hours.

Example: some people admitted to ER in a hospital do not need O2, air 21% O2 is fine. Others need a little extra O2, they get 24% O2 with the 2 prong nose piece, Others may need more O2, they get 80% O2 with the O2 mask/bag and others that are sicker may need 100% O2, they may be hooked up to a respirator life support machine.

Some human neonates need and are given 100% oxygen knowing that blindness may be a negative side effect of such high doses of oxygen if administered for a long exposure periods. The length of exposure time and partial pressure of the O2 are "conditions" that causes the blindness. Specifying "conditions" of use are important and must be addressed... a little morphine relieve severe pain, a little bit more will cause respiratory arrest and stop breathing, suffocation comes quickly if artificial breathing is not administered until the muscle paralysis caused by the overdose of morphine wears off.

I'll also query Mike Smith, Hatchery Manager at the Eagle Bend Fish Hatchery in Clinton. Mike is responsible for rearing and transporting millions of live fish. His job depends on the survival of his fish post transport. He is an expert in live haul transport water quality and dissolved oxygen. He used 100% compressed welding oxygen extensively for live fish transports at the hatchery and DO meters are common tools used every day there.

Fish hatchery staff are the real live fish transport and water quality experts. They do provide the very best fish care possible every day... that's their job.

Eagle Bend Fish Hatchery
Mike Smith, Hatchery manager
Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency
1207 Seivers Blvd.
Clinton, TN 37716
Telephone: (865) 457-5135
http://www.twra4streams.org/Eaglebend.html
 

Rivermont Jeff

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

This is the response from Randy Myers Texas Wildlife Biologist when questioned about too much O2 being an issue in livewells.

If contained in a super high DO environment for a long period of time, theoretically fish could be harmed. However, I’ve never seen tournament LMB suffer because of high DO levels. I know from using oxygen injection in our personal boats, DO of 12-15 in live well all day will not harm the fish.

So I guess there is no reason to be concerned for over oxygenating water during tournaments. Lack of O2 is a much bigger concern.
 

Tony M

New member
RE: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Jeff,

I contacted Mike Smith Mike Smith, Fish Hatchery Manager:

Eagle Bend Fish Hatchery
Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency
1207 Seivers Blvd.
Clinton, TN 37716
Telephone: (865) 457-5135
James.mike.smith@tn.gov


I described the conditions we have been discussing and ask for his professional opinion:

Mr. Smith, I was advised and told that >15 mg/L DO exposure may “irritate fish gills” (mature bass) and would appreciate your opinion as you are certainly expert in live hauls using compressed oxygen.

* My question is regarding live haul transport with oxygen – “will 15 PPM DO concentration or greater used under the conditions I’ve described above for short term transport irritate gill epithelial causing inflamation/lesion/infection or mortality?…”

Exposure to these high DO concentrations is specific and limited to short term transport of mature tournament caught bass transported in bass boat livewells and release boat haul tanks, normobaric conditions, max exposure time to 15 mg/L DO concentration or greater is 7-8 hours total and TN summer environmental water temperatures.

Initial capture and fight is highly stressful using hook and line, the fish is fought to near exhaustion resulting is severe cellular oxygen debt post landing. The fish is exposed to minimal air time while being unhooked then placed in a bass boat livewell and transported 7-8 hour to 3-4 PM weigh-in. The fish is weighed then placed is a live release boat haul tank oxygenated with compressed welding oxygen for a final 20 minute transport to a live release site and released into the wild. 15 PPM DO concentration or greater is sustained throughout transport and captivity. We use the same compressed oxygen you use in your hatchery transport.

* Mr. Smith, a TN fishery professional and expert live fish transporter that uses100% compressed oxygen every day, responded, “… In my opinion 15 ppm should have no effect on the bass. Especially if they are placed in a 1-2% salt solution before release.”

I know of no professional love fish transporters or state fish hatchery managers that claim maintaining 15 PPM DO concentration used in bass tournament transport conditions is detrimental, harmful or will burn or irritate gill tissue in mature tournament caught bass. It just doesn’t happen.

I have read fishing articles on the net and in fishing magazines written by naive or misinformed outdoor writers (pseudo-experts), uneducated fishermen’s testimonials, aerator salesmen and bass boat salesmen and bass tournament officials claiming that “too much oxygen" will burn gills, poison fish in livewells, yada, yada, yada. The fishery biologist at your state hatcheries and the fish physiologist at the universities are the real experts and most are glad to answer any questions your may ask about transporting live fish with supplemental oxygen. Their answers are based on solid fishery research and facts... they are the real experts. Just remember to preface your question by specifically identifying all the conditions so they understand exactly what your asking. Be clear.

I have read fishery research stating that high livewell DO concentrations, maybe 15 PPM DO concentrations or greater exposure, may negatively affect post live release recovery time for tournament bonefish. Maintaining livewell DO Saturations between 90% - 100% all day may be better for them provided the fisherman knows the right dose of oxygen and can specifically adjust, regulated and control the control the precise dose of oxygen. Bonefish are spooky, live in brackish estuary water and are very tolerant to water with low DO’s.

But, we are transporting mature tournament caught freshwater bass in Tennessee, not mature tournament caught saltwater bonefish caught in the Florida Keys.

Did Joey Williamson, the salesman with Southern Aquaculture Supply ever respond to your inquiry?
When is your next round of DO testing?
 

Jpxb2003

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Tony, I really appreciate the information that you have added. Can you link your references to the claim you made above regarding Rejuvenate?

Jeff, the work you have put in here is to be commended. This is a subject that most ignore because they probably dont want to hear the bad news. I, for one, am thankful for what you have done as I think it will change my practices.
 

Jpxb2003

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Carl Guffey - 7/29/2014 5:19 PM



churly - 7/29/2014 5:26 AM Since your obviously a pro, tell us what we should do to keep fish alive and healthy in the livewell. But to answer your question; yeah. He tested the tank, livewells, and weigh in bags. He posted those results. If rejuvenade is so bad, why was I able to keep my fish in great shape fir 10 hours in 95 degree heat?
</p>

<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">Because Rejuvenade has the same effect on fish  as PCP does in humans. The fish are out of their heads on a drug rush so they appear to be really lively at weigh-in. When the drug wears out, so do the fish. Primary cause of delayed mortality, adverse <font color="#660033">lactic acid</font> build up.</font></p>

Your claim may also be spot on, but I think if your intention was to link the product in question with lactic acid buildup you may have jumped the gun. Many reasons can also explain why this happens.

If I misread your post I apologize in advance.
 

Tony M

New member
Re: Regarding your DO Saturation testing in bass boat livewells full of fish - Rivermont Jeff

Jpxb20993,

My reference is first-hand experience testing DO with a YSI 550A DO meter in a summer bass tournament live release boat transport tank containing Rejuvenade.

The water was stained dark green, the tank contained 25-30 bass, the livewell additive used was Rejuvenade only, no salt or other chemicals, the water was fresh lake water and had a syrupy texture, thicker than water. When the YSI DO meter probe was placed in the dark green tank water the meter immediately pegged off the scale and malfunctioned with an “ERROR” message. This was not normal and was repeated several times with the same results. When the lake water was tested along side of the release boat with the same meter, the meter functioned perfectly. It only malfunctioned in the water containing the Rejuvenade.

I have experienced this identical reaction testing the DO of tap water in Dallas Texas. The meter pegged off the scale and the meter malfunctioned instantaneously when the probe enters the test water. I contacted the city water department and explained that I could not test the DO of Dallas city water with my DO meter. When the YSI DO meter probe was placed into city water the meter immediately pegged off the scale and malfunctioned with an “ERROR” message.

I was then advised that Dallas city was disinfected with ozone, not chlorine or chloramine. The oxidative chiastic of ozone overwhelmed the YSI DO meter and caused it to malfunction. The accuracy of the DO test would be flawed when tested with a meter using a polarography electrode (a Clark Electrode}.

After the incident trying to test the tank with the Rejuvenade, I contacted the technical staff at YSI and explained what happened. They advised me the chemical in the water probably contained a powerful oxidizer, the oxidizer could cause the DO meter to react in that way and cause the meter to give an inaccurate reading.

A powerful oxidizer in livewell water would be very irritating and certainly stimulating and make a fish behave unnaturally, of course the fish is trying to get away from the oxidizer and would appear to be rejuvenated and energized when it takes off like a rocket when released in to the natural non-toxic lake water environment.

Keep in mind, the fish takes off like a rocket and looks like it’s doing great… how the fish looks when it takes off - like a cat with its tail on fire it the whole point of using this chemical so the people and the media see it blast off when released. It has the appearance of a healthy tournament fish being released alive and tournament officials get 3 PR pluses +++ for that.

The fish acts Rejuvenated when soaked in this unknown chemical called Rejuvenade after a long tough summer tournament all ride in a bass boat livewell. Has a jingle to it and surely seeing is believing.

Who knows what’s in the chemical concoction.
 
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