15% Ethanol

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cast4bass

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It is time to put a stop to this madness for the sake of all us that love boating. EPA is considering mandating 15% Ethanol standard. Every administration bows to the corn lobby. I say put a stop to it! Ethanol is the most wasteful use of resources and it decreases fuel efficiency. So why do all politicians support this - because the primaries start out in the corn belt and they love to bow to the corn lobby. Boat US is fighting this but cannot do it alone. Everyone should write / email Congress before it is too late!
Some Facts
All of today's gasoline-burning cars and trucks can use a blend of 10 percent ethanol (known as E10) more or less without any engine modifications. However, E10 can cause an increase in smog-forming pollution relative to conventional gasoline.
Most analyses conducted before 2008 indicate that corn ethanol delivers a 10 to 20 percent reduction in global warming emissions over its lifecycle compared with gasoline, but these analyses did not include land use changes. The reduction is modest because corn production requires a significant amount of fossil fuel inputs for farm operations, processing and distilling, and fertilizer production (generally natural gas). Fertilizers used for corn production also generate a substantial amount of nitrous oxide, a potent global warming pollutant, as unused fertilizer breaks down in the field. In addition, many corn ethanol production facilities operate on natural gas; if new production facilities use coal instead, the emission benefits of corn ethanol could be reduced or eliminated.
Ethanol plants are closing across the country and some ethanol producers are declaring bankruptcy. The appeal will require the Obama administration to decide whether to increase federal support for the industry, which has already benefited from an array of subsidies, tax credits and Congressional production mandates.

“Approving the use of ethanol blends up to 15 percent is a necessary and positive step,” said Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association, an industry lobbying group, “to ensure the full potential of a robust domestic ethanol industry.” From NY Times

Bottom line - Ethanol to 15% still needs government subsidies and backing to work. So the taxpayers underwrite an industry that benefits several investors and farmers at our expense.
What is wrong with Natural Gas? I like T Boone Pickens idea to convert the trucking industry to Natural Gas which is plentiful and does not create new land use issues and re-direct food sources.

Any thoughts?
 
old man101 - 4/8/2010 1:21 PM

someone get a petition up and we all can sign it.

Yep, that sounds like a good start! You could even maybe buy an advertisement banner like the ones that appear on the homepage to get peoples attention. I am not sure if this would be allowed or not, but its just a thought.
 
cast4bass - 4/8/2010 12:14 PM

...However, E10 can cause an increase in smog-forming pollution relative to conventional gasoline...

Just curious as to where your getting your info from? It is my understanding that most all of the summer fuel blends (to combat smog) is mostly ethanol, which contradicts your statement.
 
Bfish - 4/8/2010 5:21 PM

cast4bass - 4/8/2010 12:14 PM

...However, E10 can cause an increase in smog-forming pollution relative to conventional gasoline...

Just curious as to where your getting your info from? It is my understanding that most all of the summer fuel blends (to combat smog) is mostly ethanol, which contradicts your statement.

You're mistaken , gasoline only contains up to 10 % ethanol , currently. The blend you're referring to is E85 , which is mostly ethanol, but can only be used in Flex fuel vehicles , not your standard vehicle. The EPA want to raise the 10% ethanol contents to 15 % , which all 2 stroke outboards can't handle. I believe in the future you will still see ( Ethanol free gas, 10% ethanol and 15% ethanol gas). Ethanol is nothing more then a filler and you loose some gas mileage with it.
 
Ethanol is an oxygenate. It Is used to reduce smog. Corn ethanol is still a bad deal though. If they ever figure out cellulosic ethanol that will be better since its more efficient to make.
 
Bfish - 4/8/2010 6:21 PM

cast4bass - 4/8/2010 12:14 PM

...However, E10 can cause an increase in smog-forming pollution relative to conventional gasoline...

Just curious as to where your getting your info from? It is my understanding that most all of the summer fuel blends (to combat smog) is mostly ethanol, which contradicts your statement.

Got that statement off an ethanol info site. I will have to go look it up again. It was from a scientific forum.
 
cast4bass, from your link they are talking about lifecycle (legacy) emissions, not just from the burning of gas in vehicles. If your comparing just vehicle emissions, an ethenol blend will form less smog than regular gas. As your link mentions when you start adding in all the legacy stuff then ethanol becomes a heavier smog producer.

From your link:
Accurate lifecycle emissions accounting requires that all of the energy and inputs associated with growing, producing, delivering, and using any biofuel are tracked, including emissions associated with changes in land use.
 
I don't get any of it. Croplands for growing fuel for our cars? I know that we've got lots to eat in America, and so much (basically all) of our food has some form of corn in it, but there are shortages of food in alot of places that could use our excess corn to to EAT to LIVE! And you burn more fuel to get somewhere when you've got a 10% ethanol blend in your tank, as it produces less energy per gallon. Cellulosic is the way to go, I don't know the numbers but I do know an acre of land devoted to cellulosic ethanol produces WAY WAY WAY more energy per acre than for corn ethanol.

In either case though I think plug in hybrids are the way to go, assuming that we will continue building clean energy sources to power our cars with; It won't make much of a difference if we keep building coal plants to deal with the extra power demand that would come from everyone plugging in their cars at night. I read in National Geographic that if we could harness a small fraction (forget the number-alot less than 1%) of the suns energy that hits the earth every day we would match the current energy output of all of the worlds power sources combined.

Wow, I got off on a tangent. skip to here for the summary-I don't like ethanol.
 

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