1996 225 ProMax voltage regulators??

[Allyfishing]

I just finished testing the regulators today (due to the fact my tach was floating to Zero and back up) and one is bad again. I replaced the other set a year and a half ago and now again. So what will cause voltage regulators to go out like this? What can be tested and how? the second set now in 2 years.
Thanks for looking
Craig emoBang

 

[wrechin2]

Usually when you go through regulators the stator is at fault or you don't have a 100% clean ground on the regulators. I have converted those over to 16 amps systems for that reason. You can find a used flywheel, a new stator, and regulator for a lot less than a 40 amp stator. Just my opinion.

 

[Allyfishing]

OK, talk to me James. I was told to stick with the 40 amp system due to the demand that is placed on the battery and charging system with multiple electronics and such running on a bass boat. I don't use the livewells nor do I fish tourny's anymore but I do have two HDS units running with LSS 1 structure scan and the Sirius weather module on as well. That stuff draws amps.

I have been leaning toward the stator and looked up that info for troubleshooting it in my manual. I just feel that I have an electrical issue somewhere on my outboard that is causing the loss of voltage regulators and can't help think that it may be causing a loss of engine power as well. The computer is part of the electrical system and that has to be affected if all is not right electrically, right??

 

[wrechin2]

The stator will spike and take out the regulators. This is almost impossible to test for.

The 260's use a 16 amp system and have to rune everything you have except for the depth finders. Most electronics don't pull that many amps and will only start creating issues if you have a battery problem as 16 amps is enough to run the electric fuel pump, ecu, trim, and depth finders. If you have a weak battery that takes a lot to bounce back from starting, then it will seem like you have a charging issue when you don't. You would be surprised at how little that stuff draws. If you have a good multi-meter with the amp function, simply place it in line of the positive and it will tell you exactly how much it pulls when running. If you want to be 100% sure, move the electronics to the trolling motor batteries and keep the cranking battery load to a minimum. Of course this is MY opinions and experiences.

 

[Allyfishing]

Although I installed a new battery at the start of the season I intend to pull it out and have it tested. That will at least put my mind to rest and eliminate that as a possible cause.

OK, so if a stator is know to spike as you mentioned is that something normal or not? I understand testing a stator that may have done that is difficult to test for but is there anything visibly detectable inspecting it if it is pulled from the motor?

I have spent enough time on the Lowrance sonar forum to know that many guys are saying that having multiple HDS systems along with the peripherals are running guys batteries down. Many have been having trouble with the units rebooting everytime the engine is cranked up. Wiring these units and peripherals directly to the battery and installing a blade style fuse block dedicated to the electronics is helping.

I am not arguing with you James just trying to give you another viewpoint. Teh problem with moving the electronics to the TM batteries is interference on the sonar screens. BAd interference!!

OK, back on topic, I'm going to do some testing as per my manual for the charging system and see if I can figure something out. I am also thinking that the last time I changed out the volt regs it was just one bad that time also. I wonder if it was the same one this time. I didn't check for that, wonder if that would have helped narrow it down or do they both get power to them the same way?

Thanks for trying to help James
Craig

 

[wrechin2]

Craig,
The electronics you have seem to be a lot more sensitive than what I normally deal with. The spiking can be anything from a poor ground to a intermitt internal short on the stator. I know that I have seen multiple times that a charging system have went through mulitple rectifiers. I have also read where other mechanics to remove the bullet connectors and to wire them directly to the stator as the connectors would overheat and cause issues. If it is the same regulator you changed last time, it is almost defanately a stator issue. Just my .02! Happy new year!

 

[Allyfishing]

James, thanks for replying again and trying to help. Here's what I've got so far...

I tested the yellow stator leads for continuity and they test per specs in manual. So there is no break in the coils. BUT...upon visual inspection looking up at the stator coils under the flywheel, I can see where one of the yellow wires that wrap around the copper coils looks as though it were hit with a hammer and flattened right in the middle of a copper coil. The wire casing also looks as though it is tore open a slight amount cuz I can see a bit of the copper wire inside.

Now if what I am thinking is right, that damaged insulation around the yellow wire may be picking up current from the charge being created by the flywheel spinning around a mass of copper coils and possibly throwing more current to that wire than necessary. Wouldn't that take out a regulator if it is the wire feeding that one???

Thanks James
Craig

I feel the same as you....same regulator going out has to be a stator and that break in the yellow wire can't be good. I've ordered a stator and a trigger and I plan to change it out this winter. Yes, the Lowrance HDS units with all those accessory units do place a tremendous load on the electrical system. There is post on the 3 liter forum on BBC just on having the correct battery to provide sufficient enough cranking power for them so they don't have ECU and I believe coil issues.

 

[wrechin2]

Just keep us posted on it!

 

[Allyfishing]

Absolutely!!! I'll post as soon as I get the flywheel off and remove the stator and trigger!!! I'm very curious to see the entire stator AND to be sure all the magnets are in tact.

Thanks for trying to help James!

Craig

 

[wrechin2]

Sorry to see that the reed is broken.

 

[Allyfishing]

Ahhh...you saw that on my post!! WTF is going on with my motor???? I've had a bad feeling about some things on my motor from the beginning. It's ironic that Chris CArson offered me up a deal on his reed work etc. if I send him the entire intake including the injecotr manifold, then send my injectors off to Tony to get checked etc. and then reassemble it all and return to me in exchange for a prop I had for sale.

I'm glad he did and I think it was good Carma. I would not have pulled the intake off he hadn't made me that offer.

So where I'm at right now james is replacing the stator, trigger, switchboxes and voltage regulators with new and then having Chris do his thing AND sending my ACU back to Tony to have the program checked I should be good to go. Is there any advice or something I am missing that I should check also??? I just bought a new Diehard AGM PM-2 as per advice from Don Weed to supply enough electrical power to serve my needs.

Your advice and help is greatly appreciated.

Ya know, I've been told that some guys were having trouble running Tony's ACU on their ProMax's and when they went back to the stock box (the one with the correct fuel curve after the recall) their engine issue dissapeared. Your thoughts?????

 

[Allyfishing]

this is for guys to see what happens to reeds who may ber having problems but like me not a mechanic and just learning about their engines.

 

[wrechin2]

Craig,
Doing all of that you should be good.

Thanks for your back on the other board!!

It is hard to tell if the reed is burnt or chipped from the picture. It looks burnt near the screw. If your engine has high leakage or lean it can allow the flame to enter the crankcase causing the reed to burn. Flame is not suppose to be in the crankcase. That is why you will see boyesen put in their instructions to richen the fuel mixture on CARBS as they will "lean cough" when cold causing the reeds to burn (cold engines require more fuel). ON EFI you are good because it uses multiple sensors to calculate the fuel cold or hot. The Boyesen are bad about not laying flat on the reed cage and if the flame is getting into the crankcase it may have burnt it going by it if not seated.

Have you tested the leakage lately??? Here is a post that will help you understand the differences.

http://www.chattanoogafishingforum.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=50110&posts=10&start=1

 

[Allyfishing]

I'll help ya out anytime I can james.

I just finished removing the flywheel stator and trigger. Check this out!! Could this cause any issues (I would certainly think so) with voltage regulators any other electrical interference anywhere else?? And I do not like the linkage on the trigger. It is real loose and sloppy inside. No wonder the trigger does not always allow the WOT screw to lay against the stop when checking high end timing?? I hope that comes with the new trigger cuz I do not want to use that over.

I also noticed you just mentioned, the reeds do not completely lay flat on the surface. I can see a slight gap.

Leakage???? Do mean a leak down test?? Not lately, my compression is all good between 131 and 138

 

[Allyfishing]

Also, I've read many a disagreements over on BBC on the 2.5 liter forum on leak down tests. some say it is only necessary to hold flywheel at TDC to perform the test and others say to test at various positions in the piston travel. Is that what you are doing by putting a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and then marking the depth so that each cylinder is at the same spot?? Does it matter at what depth to set each piston for each test. I'm not sure how to hold the flywheel from turning if it is not a TDC??/ that's a bunch of force trying to hold it with 100 PSI applied!!!!!

 

[wrechin2]

There is your spike in the stator! The trigger will always be "sloppy" as it needs to move freely. Most of the time when the trigger is slow to move to max timing, it is because of the plasic cover on the wiring becomes very hard and will not flex and the holder on the back will not allow it to move freely. A CDI will come with a different cover that is very flexable. On the factory ones, I will simply bend the holder where it become a guard and doesn't allow the wiring to contact the flywheel and they will move as fast as the timing arm. The linkage will not come with a new trigger. </p>

I use 1/2 past TDC going clockwise and put a pair of vice grips on the starter ring pushing against the starter and relaxing against the timing cover stud and this is very easy and 1 person can do it. If you read this post http://www.chattanoogafishingforum....&highlight=150+&highlightmode=1&action=search you will see at TDC this engine passed a leakage test! The customer wrote this and I have used this several times in the past on those such discussions. At the top of the cylinder carbon can form a seal also I have seen damaged cylinders pass with this methode as you are at the top of the damage in the cylinder. If I find a high leakage cylinder (which I do with the customer standing beside me) I will do one at TDC on the cylinder and 95% of the time it will pass at TDC. These are just my experiences and practices that have served me well over the years. </p>

 

[Allyfishing]

That's good info there James! Thanks. The slop I am referring to is in the ball joint itself. Honestly, it looks and feels like it is able to just fall out soon with out much more pressure applied. It's shot!

I do know what you are referring to with that wire holder the harness passes thru. I've had to bend it around a bit to get the harness to move freely.

 

[wrechin2]

If you order here, it will be less than $10 to replace it. http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/merc/M-62459.html

 

[Allyfishing]

Thanks for that link James. That's a neat site. Guess they have everything a guy would need for a Mercury. I already had my parts ordered form Don Weed so I gave him a call about it. Thanks.

 

[Allyfishing]

BTW, you have a few more guys on the BBC post covering your back.