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Davo

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BAR ROOM ECONOMICS – HOW THE TAX SYSTEM WORKS
Suppose that every day, ten people go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get their "fair share"?
They realised that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the fifth and the sixth would each end up being paid to drink their beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each drinker's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth person, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the drinkers began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth. She pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!" "Yes, that's right," exclaimed the fifth. "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor"
The nine drinkers surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible!
 
Hmmm?

That's very interesting... a completely new, and enlightening perspective for me.

I also learned something... you must be rich. emoBigsmile
 
LOL, I'm about as far from rich as you can get without going into the negative. I just hate the way a lot of people think that if someone makes a lot of money they should basically pay the way for others. The thing about America is that it is the land of equal opportunity, not equal pay. No one would stop me from inventing the next great operating system (except that I would have no clue), lol. Plus, if I were rich I'd be able to afford to pay someone to keep Fishnvol outa my boat.
 
rsimms - 8/29/2008 3:30 PM Hmmm? That's very interesting... a completely new, and enlightening perspective for me. I also learned something... you must be rich. </p>

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<font face="comic sans ms,sand" color="#ff0033" size="4">You have hit the nail on the head, Richard......He is rich.......or he must be cause anyone that can carry 78 rods in his boat and not step on um .....well, you know....FA</font></p>
 
Well I do understand, the guy that paid 59 dollors probably ownes a bussiness and therefore wrote off the money, for mileage to bar, time spent there, vehical that got him there, clothes he wore there, and the money he lost due to not getting a busineess deal done at bar. In end guy writes off 500 dollars off for each trip. Actually gets money back on tax return or pays no taxes at all. 4,5,6 ends up picking up his tap april the 15, as well as 1,2,and 3'S. That is how it works, and that is what most people don't understand.
 
Dadgum. I read the entire thing and the only piece of wisdom I obtained lay right there in the first sentence ... "go out for beer." emoIdea
 
Big business never pays any taxes, they write everything off, the gov. probably pays them at the end of the year.
 
I'd say that possum got that nailed on the head. If 10 don't show, then he must be dead, so then 1-9 will split his profit from his business and wil still be better off. I own a business, I write off as much as I can, i'm still very broke, i'm a supporter of beer, love my country, Very much a Christian, and I don't vote the way of the rich, remember i'm still broke. Also I cannot get health care that will cover any problems that might come up in the future because I have had those problems in the past.
 
Possum - 8/31/2008 4:24 PM

Well I do understand, the guy that paid 59 dollors probably ownes a bussiness and therefore wrote off the money, for mileage to bar, time spent there, vehical that got him there, clothes he wore there, and the money he lost due to not getting a busineess deal done at bar. In end guy writes off 500 dollars off for each trip. Actually gets money back on tax return or pays no taxes at all. 4,5,6 ends up picking up his tap april the 15, as well as 1,2,and 3'S. That is how it works, and that is what most people don't understand.

Oh Possum.... I've tried to hold back... think about how I want to respond to your reply to this post. I am thinking you probably have never owned a business and may be speaking what someone has said to you. Or maybe what your perception is... and that is where the rub is my friend. Perception is reality, unfortunately.
I owned a mortgage company in MN. One of the highest taxed states in the country, in what was previously one of the highest earning business in America. I invested my OWN money, my time, my sweat and tears to live the American dream for me and my family.
I paid more in taxes than you would ever believe unless you looked at my tax returns. And what I paid on the last 3 mos of the year, once I went into the "wealthy" bracket (which is crap) made me pay MORE in taxes for every dollar earned than was even worth making. I still get nailed every year for "reviews" that have been done five years later. They (the IRS) send me a letter each year saying that we owe another $5000 or so, that they "missed" in 2003. AND I HAVEN'T WORKED IN TWO YEARS!!!!!
I have no clue and my accountant obviously doesn't either. The one thing I have learned is you cannot fight them, for they will take everything you have. No matter WHAT you make, who your Daddy is, or what eco friendly business you may be in. If you put off paying them, the interests and penalties grow so fast and so far out of reach that you can be ruined by it. IE - I fought like crazy for 7 yr over a $14k bill THAT I DID NOT OWE!!!!! and wound up paying them, against my will when I sold my house!!!!! That bill 7 yrs later was $44k!!!!!! You wind up just giving up in futility, pay THE MAN and move on with your life. I was a small business and wound up paying dang near 40% of every dollar to taxes. Forget the lawyers, insurance, state licenses, federal licenses and required accrediations, classes, office supplies, office rent/mortgage, utilities, business equipment, etc... So, yes, I wrote off everything I could and it just didn't matter. I had to jump through so many hoops to get those write offs, that they wound up denying me anyway, when their own code allows those deductions. Those beautiful deductions you outlined above are limited as to what you can write off!!!!
So, next time you see a guy who owns his own company, and he writes off his mileage, his costs of doing business, his expenses to entertain his customers, his bills.... don't shutter at the thought of him getting a "Free ride" for that just AIN'T the case. And that same man you are fuming over carries more water for America than you can comprehend. Just ask one who paid for FAIR benefits so that he may retain his GOOD employees. The same employees that complain about how much money the boss makes and then steals all the coffee, hot chocolate, tea, sugar and cups and even the dang toilet paper his employer provides so he can wipe. Been there.... done that.... it isn't all gravy as you suggest. I know first hand. If you think it's such a great idea, why aren't you in business for yourself??? Sole proprietors and small business owners are the backbone of our beautiful USA. I applaud all the business owners and hope they make a pocketfull of money!!!! I happily support locally owned companies that are part of the fabric of our communities. Exxon and these oil companies that are having windfall profits right now with the price of oil, pay less on percentage of BILLIONS of dollars of profit, than I did on the first $100k my company made. Read the post Dave gave. It is a laymans way to explain the tax code. And it is dang near a perfect explanation. Thanks Dave. You nailed it on the head brotha. And no, I'm not bitter.... I'm just all the more wise for my next venture. I've done the big corporate jobs where the company goes bankrupt, the CEO pockets millions and I get laid off and displaced only left to find yet another job, watch my stock that I earned turn into vapor, and have my wife so scared she cannot sleep. I'd rather buy more toilet paper.
 
Nickajack Angler - 8/31/2008 10:20 PM
Possum - 8/31/2008 4:24 PM Well I do understand, the guy that paid 59 dollors probably ownes a bussiness and therefore wrote off the money, for mileage to bar, time spent there, vehical that got him there, clothes he wore there, and the money he lost due to not getting a busineess deal done at bar. In end guy writes off 500 dollars off for each trip. Actually gets money back on tax return or pays no taxes at all. 4,5,6 ends up picking up his tap april the 15, as well as 1,2,and 3'S. That is how it works, and that is what most people don't understand.
Oh Possum.... I've tried to hold back... think about how I want to respond to your reply to this post. I am thinking you probably have never owned a business and may be speaking what someone has said to you. Or maybe what your perception is... and that is where the rub is my friend. Perception is reality, unfortunately. I owned a mortgage company in MN. One of the highest taxed states in the country, in what was previously one of the highest earning business in America. I invested my OWN money, my time, my sweat and tears to live the American dream for me and my family. I paid more in taxes than you would ever believe unless you looked at my tax returns. And what I paid on the last 3 mos of the year, once I went into the "wealthy" bracket (which is crap) made me pay MORE in taxes for every dollar earned than was even worth making. I still get nailed every year for "reviews" that have been done five years later. They (the IRS) send me a letter each year saying that we owe another $5000 or so, that they "missed" in 2003. AND I HAVEN'T WORKED IN TWO YEARS!!!!! I have no clue and my accountant obviously doesn't either. The one thing I have learned is you cannot fight them, for they will take everything you have. No matter WHAT you make, who your Daddy is, or what eco friendly business you may be in. If you put off paying them, the interests and penalties grow so fast and so far out of reach that you can be ruined by it. IE - I fought like crazy for 7 yr over a $14k bill THAT I DID NOT OWE!!!!! and wound up paying them, against my will when I sold my house!!!!! That bill 7 yrs later was $44k!!!!!! You wind up just giving up in futility, pay THE MAN and move on with your life. I was a small business and wound up paying dang near 40% of every dollar to taxes. Forget the lawyers, insurance, state licenses, federal licenses and required accrediations, classes, office supplies, office rent/mortgage, utilities, business equipment, etc... So, yes, I wrote off everything I could and it just didn't matter. I had to jump through so many hoops to get those write offs, that they wound up denying me anyway, when their own code allows those deductions. Those beautiful deductions you outlined above are limited as to what you can write off!!!! So, next time you see a guy who owns his own company, and he writes off his mileage, his costs of doing business, his expenses to entertain his customers, his bills.... don't shutter at the thought of him getting a "Free ride" for that just AIN'T the case. And that same man you are fuming over carries more water for America than you can comprehend. Just ask one who paid for FAIR benefits so that he may retain his GOOD employees. The same employees that complain about how much money the boss makes and then steals all the coffee, hot chocolate, tea, sugar and cups and even the dang toilet paper his employer provides so he can wipe. Been there.... done that.... it isn't all gravy as you suggest. I know first hand. If you think it's such a great idea, why aren't you in business for yourself??? Sole proprietors and small business owners are the backbone of our beautiful USA. I applaud all the business owners and hope they make a pocketfull of money!!!! I happily support locally owned companies that are part of the fabric of our communities. Exxon and these oil companies that are having windfall profits right now with the price of oil, pay less on percentage of BILLIONS of dollars of profit, than I did on the first $100k my company made. Read the post Dave gave. It is a laymans way to explain the tax code. And it is dang near a perfect explanation. Thanks Dave. You nailed it on the head brotha. And no, I'm not bitter.... I'm just all the more wise for my next venture. I've done the big corporate jobs where the company goes bankrupt, the CEO pockets millions and I get laid off and displaced only left to find yet another job, watch my stock that I earned turn into vapor, and have my wife so scared she cannot sleep. I'd rather buy more toilet paper.
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</p>

emoDoh Good lord! Nickajerk has a computer again!emoTongue </p>

LOL!!! Good seeing you back online Spenc.emoThumbsup Thanks for the call today. :)</p>
 
RangerRob - 8/31/2008 8:32 PM

Dadgum. I read the entire thing and the only piece of wisdom I obtained lay right there in the first sentence ... "go out for beer." emoIdea

lol Amen Rob! That made my head hurt!
 
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