A good Thanksgiving Lesson on Communilism/Socialism

[outcaster]

For once cheez and I agree. A "Fair Tax" system will most likely never be enacted in my lifetime. Simply because that sort of tax will affect most greatly the rich and the poor. The poor pay basically nothing now, the richest 3% have the best tax deal they have ever had. It's the families making 75k to 105k that are getting screwed the most by the current tax structure. I don't hear anybody that is currently reporting a adjusted gross income of a quarter million per year calling for the "Fair Tax". Simply put, there is no such thing as a Fair Tax. There are always winners and losers in taxes. Right now, it's the middle, and upper middle class that are the losers.

 

[outcaster]

beetlespin - 11/29/2010 1:01 PM

Possum - 11/28/2010 8:31 PM

beetlespin - 11/28/2010 3:58 PM

I basically agree with Outcaster and possum here. In regards to the corporate writeoffs I would propose that we greatly simplify the tax system and eliminate write-offs all together. I actually like a lot of the ideas the debt commission has in regards to doing the same for personal taxes. Just set the tax rates and eliminate deductions, etc. We really shouldn't even have to fill out a tax return every year.

I love the write off system. It encourages people to spend money, which in return spreads the wealth and creates jobs. Reinvestment is what runs our economy. By spending money we are inadvertantly paying taxes. People just don't need to get to caught up in party politics. What is going on now has been going on for the last 30 years. You just cannot set the tax rates. Wish it was not, but much more complicated than that. However, thanks for agreeing with me.

Reinvestment should be driven by the need to reinvest - not some Government program to create false demand. This is where govt intervention has a negative effect on capitalism. Same with the housing bubble. Govt policies fueled housing demand by making money available to people who couldn't afford the houses they were buying. The entire credit crisis was driven by speculation. That crisis wasn't born until the govt fueled housing bubble was popped.

Institute a simple and fair tax policy and stop with all the partisan shenanigans.

I mostly agree with beetlespin on this. The gov't only needs to create jobs when the "free market" system stops working. (Like right now)
Anything thing the Gov't does is a temporary, stop-gap measure to keep some people employed, until the economic engine can be restarted. Gov't policies can also have un-intended consequences. The housing bubble is a good example of that. The legislation of 1999, relaxed laws put into place in 1933 after the great depression. Wall St., mortgage, and real estate brokers and Republicans had been begging for a relaxation of the lending laws for decades. Clinton caved to these demands, and signed the law, adding protections, which were striped away in 2003. In my view, the housing bubble and Wall St collapse were caused by the Gov't getting out of the way of good ole Capitalism, and greed by investors, brokers, bankers, and homebuyers.

 

[spnplgr]

Well, Ireland got it's bailout. Portugal is next and Spain after that. The IMF estimates that Spain's bailout will be seven times larger than Ireland's. Then, it is estimated the money bag will be empty.

What do you guys think causes the bailouts? You don't think it is the result of spending money they did not have, do you? You do not think it is big government taking care of non workers do you? Cradle to grave government care is not sustainable.

After Spain's bailout, when the coffers are empty, which country will be next to ask for their bailout? With the coffers empty, what will that country do? BTW, it was announced today that China's recent bond auction failed! WOW!!! Is the money honey hole drying up?

If your personal credit lines were maxed out, would you go to the bank and try to borrow more money in an effort to resolve your problem? Not unless you're a completely stupid retard. I suspect most of you, regardless of your political affiliation, know better than that. I wonder why our elected officials don't also know better. Oh, is it because they are trying to crash the system in order to get total control?

Hang on folks, it's about to get real scary and possibly quite nasty too. When it comes, will you be ready? Will you know what to do? Hint: Do not cry for the government to take control of everything.

 

[Sniperchoke]

outcaster - 11/29/2010 5:49 PM

beetlespin - 11/29/2010 1:01 PM

Possum - 11/28/2010 8:31 PM

beetlespin - 11/28/2010 3:58 PM

I basically agree with Outcaster and possum here. In regards to the corporate writeoffs I would propose that we greatly simplify the tax system and eliminate write-offs all together. I actually like a lot of the ideas the debt commission has in regards to doing the same for personal taxes. Just set the tax rates and eliminate deductions, etc. We really shouldn't even have to fill out a tax return every year.

I love the write off system. It encourages people to spend money, which in return spreads the wealth and creates jobs. Reinvestment is what runs our economy. By spending money we are inadvertantly paying taxes. People just don't need to get to caught up in party politics. What is going on now has been going on for the last 30 years. You just cannot set the tax rates. Wish it was not, but much more complicated than that. However, thanks for agreeing with me.

Reinvestment should be driven by the need to reinvest - not some Government program to create false demand. This is where govt intervention has a negative effect on capitalism. Same with the housing bubble. Govt policies fueled housing demand by making money available to people who couldn't afford the houses they were buying. The entire credit crisis was driven by speculation. That crisis wasn't born until the govt fueled housing bubble was popped.

Institute a simple and fair tax policy and stop with all the partisan shenanigans.

I mostly agree with beetlespin on this. The gov't only needs to create jobs when the "free market" system stops working. (Like right now)
Anything thing the Gov't does is a temporary, stop-gap measure to keep some people employed, until the economic engine can be restarted. Gov't policies can also have un-intended consequences. The housing bubble is a good example of that. The legislation of 1999, relaxed laws put into place in 1933 after the great depression. Wall St., mortgage, and real estate brokers and Republicans had been begging for a relaxation of the lending laws for decades. Clinton caved to these demands, and signed the law, adding protections, which were striped away in 2003. In my view, the housing bubble and Wall St collapse were caused by the Gov't getting out of the way of good ole Capitalism, and greed by investors, brokers, bankers, and homebuyers.

Exactly how did gov't get out of the way since Freddie and Fannie owned like 70% of all mortgages????????????

 

[Sniperchoke]

Here is a quote from one of your fearless leaders before the mortgage crisis. From 2003

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

 

[outcaster]

Sniperchoke - 11/30/2010 11:02 AM

outcaster - 11/29/2010 5:49 PM

beetlespin - 11/29/2010 1:01 PM

Possum - 11/28/2010 8:31 PM

beetlespin - 11/28/2010 3:58 PM

I basically agree with Outcaster and possum here. In regards to the corporate writeoffs I would propose that we greatly simplify the tax system and eliminate write-offs all together. I actually like a lot of the ideas the debt commission has in regards to doing the same for personal taxes. Just set the tax rates and eliminate deductions, etc. We really shouldn't even have to fill out a tax return every year.

I love the write off system. It encourages people to spend money, which in return spreads the wealth and creates jobs. Reinvestment is what runs our economy. By spending money we are inadvertantly paying taxes. People just don't need to get to caught up in party politics. What is going on now has been going on for the last 30 years. You just cannot set the tax rates. Wish it was not, but much more complicated than that. However, thanks for agreeing with me.

Reinvestment should be driven by the need to reinvest - not some Government program to create false demand. This is where govt intervention has a negative effect on capitalism. Same with the housing bubble. Govt policies fueled housing demand by making money available to people who couldn't afford the houses they were buying. The entire credit crisis was driven by speculation. That crisis wasn't born until the govt fueled housing bubble was popped.

Institute a simple and fair tax policy and stop with all the partisan shenanigans.

I mostly agree with beetlespin on this. The gov't only needs to create jobs when the "free market" system stops working. (Like right now)
Anything thing the Gov't does is a temporary, stop-gap measure to keep some people employed, until the economic engine can be restarted. Gov't policies can also have un-intended consequences. The housing bubble is a good example of that. The legislation of 1999, relaxed laws put into place in 1933 after the great depression. Wall St., mortgage, and real estate brokers and Republicans had been begging for a relaxation of the lending laws for decades. Clinton caved to these demands, and signed the law, adding protections, which were striped away in 2003. In my view, the housing bubble and Wall St collapse were caused by the Gov't getting out of the way of good ole Capitalism, and greed by investors, brokers, bankers, and homebuyers.

Exactly how did gov't get out of the way since Freddie and Fannie owned like 70% of all mortgages????????????

Which is it Sniper 33% like you posted on a previous thread or now 70%? Are you just pulling these numbers out of your arse. Actually the number is closer to 38%, even though 97% of all new home loans were Fannie and Freddy backed mortgages. HMMM 38%of the failures with 97% of the mortgages. So yes, the gov't did get out of the way and greed took over. So are you advocating for the Gov't to get in the way of business? Fanny mae and freddy WERE fine in 2003. 2005 til 2007 were the critical years.

 

[Sniperchoke]

Backed mortgages sorry. I new it was high just didn't want to put close to 100%. I believe Freddie and Fannie should not exist at all the gov't shouldn't have that capability. Gov't entities like Freddie and Fannie are unconstitutional. Look what happened they created a false sense of security and the bubble burst.. Strike another one up for the gov't.

 

[outcaster]

Sniperchoke - 11/30/2010 10:51 PM

Backed mortgages sorry. I new it was high just didn't want to put close to 100%. I believe Freddie and Fannie should not exist at all the gov't shouldn't have that capability. Gov't entities like Freddie and Fannie are unconstitutional. Look what happened they created a false sense of security and the bubble burst.. Strike another one up for the gov't.

Yeah.... the greedy capitalists screwed the gov't. I thought it worked the other way around. Unconstitutional? According to who? You? and Prof Williams? What else is unconstitutional? OSHA, FDA, USDA, FDIC, EPA, restaurant health inspectors, the fire marshal?

 

[Sniperchoke]

Screwed the gov't really? The gov't shouldn't have been involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the ones doing most of the screwing were Barney Frank and the head of Freddie Mac.

 

[spnplgr]

"Affordable Housing" is just another term meaning "housing subsities for people who would never, ever qualify to buy a home", let alone any other large purchase. So, If they cannot afford to buy, then who pays for their purchase? YOU DO!!!!

Europeans have finally learned this folly is unstainable. When will we learn? Will we go broke before we bite the bullet? There's a very good chance it will happen because so many Americans say "it can't happen in America". Scary as hell to me!!!