Freedom of Speech and Religion

[trashtrout]

What does it hurt for a team to pray before, during or after a game? If your little kid dont want to they dont have to....But why take that right from others?

 

[Dustin]

If you consider the time these things were written, it simply means the church will not control the government. It does not mean that the government should turn it's back on the church. Also,this is a democracy which means it is meant to be controlled by the majority, not some small group that thinks their way is the only way.

 

[outcaster]

Chillerman, I'm not angry. I just don't "go along to get along". The reason why it's still debated is because Christians are continually trying to impose their world view on everyone else. Because it much easier to form society to their world view through laws and the the govt., than it is thru the pulpit, and living by example. Why is your freedom to worship and pray anywhere, anytime not enough for you? Why do you need to control the govt too? BTW. Someone brought up Nascar a few posts ago.... I find it ironic that Nascar is the ONLY spectator sport where the attendees (all of them claiming to love America and Jesus no doubt), need to to be be reminded by the pa announcer to stand up and "remove their hats" for the invocation, National anthem and Pledge. I also find it very interesting that two of the posters in this thread have actually suggested that Christians either should or would resort to violence to have their views imposed. Wow! beating someone up for standing up for separation of church and state...... That reminds me, and confirms why I don't call myself a Christian.

 

[buzz]

I really don't think they NEED reminded. It's a signal, that PRAYER and PLEDGE are about to begin. I guess to you....that is strange.

 

[buzz]

And your part about "controlling the government". WE THE PEOPLE certainly need to try and control it. IT IS SO "OUT OF CONTROL", I just hope and PRAY...yes PRAY....it's not too late.

 

[outcaster]

buzz - 8/26/2012 1:24 PM

I really don't think they NEED reminded. It's a signal, that PRAYER and PLEDGE are about to begin. I guess to you....that is strange.

Basketball, baseball, football, the attendees are not reminded to remove their hats..... Nascar has to ask all the rednecks wearing their ballcaps to remove them, because they DO need reminding. So it's one of three things...... either Nascar fans are: 1. Dumb as a sack of hammers. 2. Don't really love America and Jesus as much as they claim. 3. Are already hammered drunk before the green flag drops. Most likely it's a combination of all three. lol After all, it is Nascar. Either way they need a friendly reminder.

 

[buzz]

You make a living being a painter? Thats a pretty BROAD brush, that you use.

 

[humdinger]

Some people just need something to complain about. What's next, a church can't have a cross on it so you don't have to see it? Again, they always say "let us pray" before they start. Just stick your fingers in your ears!

 

[Rollcast]

Separation of church and state started with Henry VIII when he broke from the Roman Catholic church because they wouldn't agree to his having one wife after another. He started the Anglican Church so it would agree with him. Are you aware that any non-Anglican church in England pay taxes to support the Anglican church?

If you want to hear a good sermon on hypocrits, listen to Allan Lockerman's sermon today (First Baptist Church, Cleveland, www.clevelandfbc.com). I think it was an excellent expository sermon.

 

[jigman1]

Hey Outcaster, just wanted to say you are right about some people that call themselves Christians, anyone can say they are Christians but have they truly gave their hearts to God (born again). When Christ was on this earth He never harmed anyone He only showed and gave love not hate, regardless of what they have done. So, I wouldn't let what some people say affect how you see Christians. I personally know people that say stuff I don't agree with but all I know to do is just pray for them. Regardless of where they take prayers from, they can never stop anyone from praying anywhere or anytime, because a prayer comes from the heart not from the mouth. We as Christians are suppose to go continually with a prayer on our heart and no one can stop that so, we don't have to audibly say a word. GOD BLESS THE LORD IS GOOD!!

 

[Hook1]

I wasnt trying to start a ranting rave here just stating that I will publicly support the head football coach at my alma mater. The part that offends me is that this group has tried t make my Church look bad or wrong because they FEAD a group of young men. How is that wrong? Public service has been a big part of our church for a long time. When I played ball in school, our youth group had a thing on Friday nights called the "Fifth Quarter". We would hang out after ball games and eat pizza that the church supplied. It kept lots of kids out of trouble on Friday nights. Where was this group then? I graduated in 1998 and things werent much better back then. However; we never heard of such groups singling out a Church or even a football coach for allowing his players and the other team's players to participate in a TEAM WIDE prayer. When I played we had a prayer before the game and after BOTH teams met on the 50 yard line and quoted the Lord's Prayer. Not everyone said the prayer I'm sure but there were no problems. I will continue to try to live as Christ would and pray when I feel led either publicly or private and if someone feels I have been offensive its only their opinion and I'm sorry. The Word of God tells me how to live and love and thats the only guideline I need. Please Outcaster don't "Group" me with a few people you view as hypocrites because the body of Christ is very large. Its like a sports team or Congress for example. You will have some really good people and you will have some who are not as good as others. That doesn't make them all wrong. God Bless you all.

 

[Fishin' Junkie]

I guess it's ok for this left wing liberal group to impose their beliefs on Christians but it's not ok for Christians to impose our beliefs on them?

Outcaster, because you quoted Jesus in the book of Matthew on how we all should pray, I guess that means you are a bible believer? Well I have another quote from Jesus that I think you need to read...

John 14: 6-7 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

 

[Sniperchoke]

This is something for you guys to consider. What if the Coach was Muslim? What if he was leading the football team in Muslim Prayer on prayer mats facing Mecca? Would you still be in favor of supporting this Coach? Live by example be confident in your example and let people make their own decisions about their life.

 

[outcaster]

I think that's the first and only time sniperchoke and I will agree in anything. This isn't about a meal before or after a ballgame. It's about a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE who is in a position of authority, leading or compelling those he/she is charged with to pray, therefore mixing gov't and religion. Fishin junkie..... I have forgotten more Bible than most so-called Christians know. I quoted the scripture to make my point that most Christians don't even know what's in their own Bible. Most want to publicly pray at football games, when Jesus was VERY clear and said to do the very opposite. Also, I'm not sure how John 14:6-7 applies to a discussion about how, when & if someone should pray.

 

[Jason F-18]

outcaster - 8/26/2012 12:10 PM

Chillerman, I'm not angry. I just don't "go along to get along". The reason why it's still debated is because Christians are continually trying to impose their world view on everyone else. Because it much easier to form society to their world view through laws and the the govt., than it is thru the pulpit, and living by example. Why is your freedom to worship and pray anywhere, anytime not enough for you? Why do you need to control the govt too? BTW.

Danny, you make the exact point that is so frustrating. The coach has a RIGHT to pray before the game. The kids have a RIGHT to join him or not. It s that simple. He is not FORCING prayer as the school system. He is praying because that is what he believes. So there's your separation.

Also, God called us to be Diciples, not to ignore everyone and keep our faith in Christ to ourselves. There is a time for silent prayer, and a time for public prayer.

 

[outcaster]

While the coach is on the football field and locker room he IS acting as a State Govt employee/official. and no, he is not forcing, but he is leading and compelling. I don't care what he does or when he prays when he is on his own time.