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Carl Guffey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
2,463
Location
Friendsville, TN
I have been hearing alot about grass ( E. milfoil, et al.)
As stated in other posts I have been the Conservation Director for the Tennesse Bass Federation during the last 3-4 years. Because of this I have had the oppurtunity to travel around the country sitting in on seminars concerning, bass population dynamics, aquatic vegetation, and alien intrusions, ie. Zebra mussel, big head carp, snake heads, and giant salvinia.

Here is what I know about aquatic vegetation. With the clumping green matter ie, milfoil and hydrilla as it first enters a aquatic system, bass begin to thrive. The new plants provide limited cover for ambush, protects bass fry, attracks prey species to the new forage. Water quality generally improves with increased oxygen and decreased siltration. All of the good numbers increase as the colonies increase in size through out the reservoir, generally to a size of approximately forty percent coverage. As plant coverage starts to increase beyond that range bass species start a downward spiral. Coverage becomes so thick that hunting prey for bass becomes difficult. Prey species have no room to school and provide large numbers to be consumed easily. Water temps may soar in summer heat. Surface water temps on guntersville over large mats can reach 125 degrees. As water temp increases ability to hold oxygen decreases. Even though milfoil is producing large amounts of oxygen the water just can't hold it.
Also as the grass decomposes in the fall, oxygen is removed from the water in the decomposition process literally producing dead zones. The greater the coverage the worse it is.

The worst part is there are no natural predators to inhibit growth. There are only two methods of control, limited spraying and/or manual harvest, both of which are expensive.
 
yes, good info.
on guntersville the lake is mostly covered with grass. i dont know the percentage, but its alot. it is still by far the best fishery that is within a days drive of chattanooga (in my opinion). i havent noticed a problem with it (other than having to pull grass off your lure on every cast, lol). i have seen a one day tourney down there won with 31 lbs and some change. thats five fish. it was won by troy jens, a local guide a couple of years ago. i would love for chick to get to that level.
but my question is then why is guntersville so good if too much grass is bad for the lake? im kinda confused. to me its an awesome lake that anytime u fish it u have a chance to catch a monster. but i think u are saying that its not good, or maybe u are saying its not to its full potential. im kinda mixed up, can u clear me up a little.
and once again, not arguing. lol.
 
About five years ago, all of the stake holders on Guntersville got together and formed a plan. By stakeholders I mean, fishermen, property owners, local business interest, conservationist, and TVA. Together the group developed a control plan, using spraying and manual harvest. The group developed a plan to open specific areas, cutting boat lanes and removing mats in different parts of the lake each year. What you are enjoying now is a culmination of several processes. Controlled manipulation of aquatic vegetation, lowland reservoir shallow areas and sloughs for good spawning areas, and a longer growing season (global warming has some weird side effects). A couple degrees in lattitude can make several degrees difference in average temperatures.
Note: check out temp average difference between Atlanta and Chattanooga through out the year.
 
I know that originally it was sprayed, I am not sure of the chemicals involved but some of them have a long halflife. One other note, no laughs, while E milfoil was growing all of the little creatures that depended on the grass grow in numbers with it. yes, turtles......After the spraying effort especially for the first two years numbers of turtles were still high. Any shoote that came up took a beating from the little creatures. Another culprit is residential dock owners, some chemicals are still available for vegetative pond control, it is not a stretch to see what is going on there. One thing of importance, if you see people pouring things or casting tablets into the lake, call the offices of the Tennessee Enviromental protection agency. These are good people who will go to work to protect the watershed if you will call them. Most of you take cameras/phones for pictures so take some shoots and let your fingers do the walking....

P.S. there is grass in the chick, it is on the way back.....
 
TheFisherman - 11/15/2006 5:49 PM

Great info - except it seems nothing can kill it out of a lake - so what happened to all the grass in the CHick?


Somewhere around late 80's or 1990, the TVA sprayed all the river, lake with something called SONAR. It absolutely ruined the Chick for a long time. Fish were sick and they had no cover for the young to hide. So for about 15 yrs the Chick was a tough place to catch fish.. It is true the grass is coming back. Maybe they will leave it alone for awhile...emoGeezer
 
Back in the 70's, TVA dropped pellets of 2-4-D herbicide in Watts Bar from a helicopter. The pellets were about the size of rabbit food, I think.
 
SONAR was some of the stuff TVA used. They showed no responsibility for the resource in using this crap! My brother is a regional fisheries biologist for SC & they would not introduce it to any watershed because no one had any long term data on its effects. The manufacturer said that the time release efects were up to 5 yrs., but that data that had been done in test ponds showed it was still potent at 12 yrs. So this mess makes bottom substates incapable of growing any vegetation for God knows how long. Just again goes to show that TVA cares little about the health of our river system & will succumb to whoever puts the most political pressure on them. I'm still pissed off about it 20 yrs. later. Does vegetation need to be controlled? Of course. Did it need to be eradicated? Only if you are certain politically powerful lakefront homeowners who believe that the resource is theirs. I loved that TVA BS line about recent high water levels preventing grass from coming back. No, the lake bottom has been sterilized for the last 20 yrs. Sorry for the rant, I just still get mad about the irresponsibility in putting this stuff in our lakes.
 
Remember TVA are the same folks who dumped PCBs into the water shed because it was cheaper than hauling it off and the same folks who will swap prime lake front for anything you can haul, drag, or drive onto the lot. I've got some cliff side views in Morgan County I would swap for Watts Bar Dam, even......
 
If the turtles eat the grass, won't spraying the grass then kill the turtles?

Also, how were the "stake holders" in Guntersville talked into cleaning out the grass? I'm assuming they volunteered. Couldn't other lakes use the same idea and get volunteers to clean out the lakes? People are more likely to volunteer for something that benefits them.emoSmile

Are they any other types of grasses and/or plants that could be planted that would do a better job than the ones already growing?
 
So for about 15 yrs the Chick was a tough place to catch fish.. [/QUOTE]

It is still a tough place to catch a big fish for those of us that do not have the time to fish like we would like to. I can remember when I bought my first bass boat in the mid 80's it was no problem to catch alot of good fish. I didn't get to fish much for along time while my wife and I was putting me through school, now it is like starting all over trying to find fish.
 
Amen, Amen and Amen! Sure some vegetation needs to be control to a DEGREE but we don't need the kind of stuff that happened 25 or so years ago to the chick. We had a guy that owned a couple of SUPER productive ponds in the area that used the same crap. The ponds are deserts now 20 years later. Only one has recovered to any degree. I know that some folks have an aversion to milfoil and I understand it CAN be a problem but I also know that with it's advent here fishing productivity increased by 10 times. From all I have read research is split about 50/50 on if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I think control, no eradication is the key. I'm still pissed off myself about the kill years ago. It took away a prime fishery and we are only now getting it back.



TR20bh - 11/17/2006 11:58 AM

SONAR was some of the stuff TVA used. They showed no responsibility for the resource in using this crap! My brother is a regional fisheries biologist for SC & they would not introduce it to any watershed because no one had any long term data on its effects. The manufacturer said that the time release efects were up to 5 yrs., but that data that had been done in test ponds showed it was still potent at 12 yrs. So this mess makes bottom substates incapable of growing any vegetation for God knows how long. Just again goes to show that TVA cares little about the health of our river system & will succumb to whoever puts the most political pressure on them. I'm still pissed off about it 20 yrs. later. Does vegetation need to be controlled? Of course. Did it need to be eradicated? Only if you are certain politically powerful lakefront homeowners who believe that the resource is theirs. I loved that TVA BS line about recent high water levels preventing grass from coming back. No, the lake bottom has been sterilized for the last 20 yrs. Sorry for the rant, I just still get mad about the irresponsibility in putting this stuff in our lakes.
 
Wow - touched a nerve! I lived here for 12 years - 1978 to 1990 and the milfoil on Chick was in its hey day when I left. Heard that it had been eradicated but never dreamed they could keep it dead this long - or that there was a way that one could eradicate it so completely - backwater areas and all. When I got back (3 years ago now) I asked the folks at TVA and they deny having done anything. I don't know the answer but you guys seem to, and I do believe the only way you could completely eradicate it would be with a chemical. I have wondered though, how they could confine the damage to CHick and it not flow downstream to harm Nick and the big G. Did they mess up Watts Bar too? I haven't been back to the Bar yet.I confess that I don't get to fish as much as I used to but I still love it so!!
 
The upper reaches of Melton hill around Oak Ridge marina back in the coves there still has a little milfoil in it. There is none on Watts Bar. The thing about chemicals is, they kill all weeds, including native grasses that grow along the river banks. TVA has a history of being irresponsable with it's resources.
 
TheFisherman - 11/17/2006 7:19 PM
Wow - touched a nerve! I lived here for 12 years - 1978 to 1990 and the milfoil on Chick was in its hey day when I left. Heard that it had been eradicated but never dreamed they could keep it dead this long - or that there was a way that one could eradicate it so completely - backwater areas and all. When I got back (3 years ago now) I asked the folks at TVA and they deny having done anything. I don't know the answer but you guys seem to, and I do believe the only way you could completely eradicate it would be with a chemical. I have wondered though, how they could confine the damage to CHick and it not flow downstream to harm Nick and the big G. Did they mess up Watts Bar too? I haven't been back to the Bar yet.I confess that I don't get to fish as much as I used to but I still love it so!!

I think it DID affect the upper end of Nickajack for years. In the late 80's I fished milfoil from Moccasin Bend all the way downriver. After the Tellico-Watts Bar- Chick poisoning ALL the grass was gone in the river until you got to Mullins Cove. I believe SONAR carried downstream was responsible for eradication there as well. Hey, let me make a suggestion. Don't believe anything TVA folks say. Like any governmental agency, they will follow their own agenda & deny any wrongdoing & they will respond to the wishes of those with the most financial & political clout.
 
Well I will tell you this much, they will do the same thing to Nickajck if allowed, they being whomever screams loud enough, because ol Thunder Thorton, is trying to make the lower end of Nickajack a high dollar development area, so yall better watch out. People in this town (Chattanooga) dont give two hoops and a hollar about fishermen and what it means to this ecomony even though we are a "Tourist Town". If it aint golf, or running or bicycling, or softball, THEY DONT CARE. I dont mean to step on toes, because there is room for all of the above, however, fishing AND hunting are important to this area. Its all natural resources, and we better all stick together when they get their airboats warmed up!!!!!
 
I recall that RSimms posted an article a while back about the city of Chattanooga losing out on a major Crappie Tournament. Not sure if we lost out on that due to a lack of effort or ignorance but I was surprised to learn that other cities pay big $$ in incentives to actually attract organized tournaments due to the $$ the out of town visiting anglers and spectators inject into the local economy.

Wormhook's post got me to thinking....It is very interesting to me that Chattanooga in all its efforts to promote tourism and the waterfront would ignore potential $$ from the national angling community (especially as large and visible as it is today) and those who might visit Chattanooga just to fish a Tx and spend big $$ here. Maybe Riverbend, Motorcycle gatherings, and Krystal eating contests are all they need, but I would think a big televised BassMaster Classic weigh-in next to the fountains at Ross's Landing would put a few dollars into the economy as well.

I see advertisements all the time for new waterfront developments in FL touting an incredible fishery as the bait to lure in potential homebuyers, especially in areas where there are not a lot of jobs. If I owned all the property Thunder Thornton does I would be advertising how many world records have been landed within a stones throw of the development...I know of 2. Yep, I know they are sometimes regarded as junkfish, but still world records! BFG nearly had the state record spot there and I have seen numerous monster smallies from Nickajack.

I have no way of quantifying any $$ that the city may have lost due to declines in grass or losing potential tournaments due to the Chick's reputation of a declined fishery, but I bet its more than a few dollars...I read an article on Google where just one 4 day tournament affected one cities economy by 1.3 million. I think it would be great to see the city government interested in improving our chances of becoming a more popular place to fish through conservation and promoting the resources here. I can't help but think if that kind of economic and conservational awakening occurs then we might see some differing opinions by those with influence to spray aquatics.
 

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