Privat Schools better than Public Schools.

[Sniperchoke]

Thought this was interesting. Im sure there are a couple on here that will disagree.



August 5, 2010 08:24 AM UTC by John Stossel

Competition Breeds Success II

This morning, I got an e-mail that provides another example of how private schools tend to beat the government-union monopoly.

Dear John:

The annual state test results were just announced, and we have exciting news to share!

In eighth grade math, Harlem Village Academy was the highest performing school in the state of New York. With 100% proficiency for the third straight year, we outperformed the city (46%), state (55%), Harlem (36%), Scarsdale (80%) and Chappaqua (91%).

In eighth grade English, we were the highest performing of all schools in Harlem.

That came to me from Deborah Kenny, another entrepreneur who runs an outstanding school in Harlem



Read more: http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/08/05/competition-breeds-success-ii/#ixzz0vkDfT8px

 

[outcaster]

There is no doubt that a child can get a better education in a Private School. Not everyone can go to/afford a private education. Why do you think they call them "PRIVATE"...... as opposed to "PUBLIC". Public schools are charged with educating everyone. The trouble makers, handicapped, mentally challenged, kids with parents that don't care, and abused kids. Private schools can keep class sizes small, and accept or expel at their choosing. I still believe that a child can get a good prep (for college) education in our public schools if the parent is involved. The only test score that really maters is the ACT.

 

[SpurHunter]

I agree Danny, for the most part. Even WITH involvement from Me and Carol, we didnt think the public schools our kids were in were doing a good job, that's why we pulled them in favor of homeschooling. Test scores show we did the right thing. And we were in a so-called "magnet-school" What a joke that is.

 

[Dropshot]

I also agree with Danny. No doubt that the majority of private schools will always outperform public schools. Everyone in my wife's family helps with sending my niece to one. With that said, not all families can afford a private school education. That is where I question the use of tenure instead of truly rating teachers on performance. I also believe that parents must bear some responsibility in their child's learning. That is why I was a backer of the voucher system, which allowed us poor folks to have a chance at sending our children to better schools in preparing for their future.

 

[Bfish]

Dropshot - 8/5/2010 12:45 PM] That is why I was a backer of the voucher system

Redistribution of the education, interesting concept from the right. I find it ironic, especially since the radical right rails against other forms of redistribution.

In the proposals that I have seen so far, it is very costly, and benefits very few.

 

[Bfish]

SpurHunter - 8/5/2010 12:42 PM

...we didnt think the public schools our kids were in were doing a good job..

There is a reason why some people are willing to pay higher taxes to be in certain school districts.

 

[foodsaver]

shouldn't all the school districts provide the same level of education Bfish? If everyone qualifies for the voucher system how is it redistribution of wealth? It would just allow you to use the money you pay for school taxes to send your kid where you want them to go.

 

[Bfish]

foodsaver - 8/5/2010 1:27 PM

shouldn't all the school districts provide the same level of education Bfish?

They are required to provide the same minimum level of education. However some districts exceed the minimum.

If everyone qualifies for the voucher system how is it redistribution of wealth?

I never said anything about wealth, however I have never seen a voucher system that has no qualifications. They all have some minimum standards, be it wealth or poor preforming school district, whatever it might be it is never all inclusive.

It would just allow you to use the money you pay for school taxes to send your kid where you want them to go.

I have never seen a voucher program set up that way, they all use external funds to pay for the credit, not a transfer of tax.

EDIT to add: read this overview:
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/vouchers.pdf

IMO, pages 8-9 do a good job of covering the pros and cons of vouchers.

 

[SpurHunter]

You didnt say the word wealth in your reply, but everybody knew where you were going. You meant wealth. Period. HUGE difference in the voucher proposal and redistribution of wealth.

 

[Bfish]

SpurHunter - 8/5/2010 2:18 PM
HUGE difference in the voucher proposal and redistribution of wealth.

Please explain how it is different?

Redistribution for education or healthcare, or whatever reason ultimately is a redistribution of wealth.

 

[JaSkynyrd]

That pdf was a good read Bfish, but I was wondering what your stance on this subject is. I can guess that you're against it because of your cost vs. benefits argument but I can't be sure.

Also, I feel that the same can be said about the underperforming schools in Hamilton County/City of Chattanooga. Costly to operate, with few benefits to the children. I also think that a few of the opponents points are not valid:

• leave the neediest students to perform less well in poor public schools
• offer inconsistent socialization experiences, leading to intolerance and an inability to
respectfully deliberate issues of democracy as a community
• are available to only a small number of students who are limited in their school
choices by the schools that participate and the voucher amount

All of those things are happening NOW, with the current system, vouchers or not.

I am not sure what I will do when my children go to school, because I went to a public school and my fiancee to a private one. I will say that I went to better than average (at least for Hamilton County, maybe not for the state/country) schools, from Westview Elementary to all Ooltewah schools for the rest, so my view of public schools is skewed from what an East Lake child might think.

As for the difference between the vouchers and redistibution of wealth, the main hangup for redistribution of wealth is the perception that lazy people can get a free ride for all services that productive people have to pay for. The voucher system, however, does not directly benefit the person applying for it (the parent) but it helps their child become better prepared/educated for the rest of their life, thus providing a fantastically greater benefit that just say, an oxygen bottle that they can wheel around because they traded their food stamps for a fraction of their value for cash and spent that on ciggies for 30 years. Or a lifetime of eating food from McDonalds or the convenience store because it's cheap as dirt and the welfare check can't stretch very far.. If used correctly, it can break the cycle of poverty.

 

[Eyeman2]

The first sentence should tell you the problem.. "This morning.............,,,,,,beat the government-union monoply."

Case closed, guilty, next case please.

 

[rsimms]

You get what you pay for.

I balked bigtime when my wife first suggested our daughters go to private school. Of course I was "persuaded."emoBigsmile

Our family scrimped in a big way... basically we just gave the majority of my wife's salary to the girls' school.

But there was never a day... not one... when I ever felt we weren't getting what we paid for. Everyday I was amazed and proud of the education my daughters received... in "book learnin'" and life skills. They took advantage of the opportunity Mom and Dad provided... and today they are better off for it.

I have great respect for our public schools ... the people who run them and the people who teach in them. They do great things with what they've got. It's just impossible to give them the resources the private schools can afford.

Private schools aren't for everyone... but don't think you have to be "rich" to go to one. There is room for regular folks who don't mind making some sacrifices for their kids.

And here is the silver lining... when my daughters went off to UT Knoxville (both on HOPE Scholarships), college expenses were FAR, FAR less than what we paid for them to go to a private schools. So unlike most folks, when my girls went off the college, we got a HUGE raise! emoThumbsup

 

[Buoy-Master]

You certainly have a way with words and facts Richard. Heck..you should write a book or be some sort of writer.

Seriously, I wish we had put my son through private school. I went and am better off for it. I would have dropped out in public school. Luckily, my daughter starts this year at CA.

 

[Bfish]

JaSkynyrd - 8/5/2010 4:17 PM

That pdf was a good read Bfish, but I was wondering what your stance on this subject is. I can guess that you're against it because of your cost vs. benefits argument but I can't be sure.

Yes I am against largely because of the cost vs. benefit. Otherwise I am only slightly against, but open to the possibility if compelling reasoning can show how it can benefit with out detriment to those who don't utilize the voucher.

Also, I feel that the same can be said about the underperforming schools in Hamilton County/City of Chattanooga. Costly to operate, with few benefits to the children.

Quite possible true, however Hamilton County is mandated to provide those services.

I also think that a few of the opponents points are not valid:

• leave the neediest students to perform less well in poor public schools
• offer inconsistent socialization experiences, leading to intolerance and an inability to
respectfully deliberate issues of democracy as a community
• are available to only a small number of students who are limited in their school
choices by the schools that participate and the voucher amount

All of those things are happening NOW, with the current system, vouchers or not.

Maybe to a certain extent but would not voucher make the gap larger? At least that is the viewpoint of the bipartisan paper from MN.

I am not sure what I will do when my children go to school, because I went to a public school and my fiancee to a private one. I will say that I went to better than average (at least for Hamilton County, maybe not for the state/country) schools, from Westview Elementary to all Ooltewah schools for the rest, so my view of public schools is skewed from what an East Lake child might think.

Well at least with public system, you have some say as the school board is elected. Regardless of which route you choose, parental involvement is the key.

As for the difference between the vouchers and redistibution of wealth, the main hangup for redistribution of wealth...

Education vouchers are a redistribution of wealth, IMO.

 

[outcaster]

Education is the responsibility of the parent first and foremost. All three of my kids are getting a good education in the Public school system. Maybe not as good as a private one, but good enough to get them into a good university. Colleges don't really care if you had a public or private education, or were home schooled. What is important to them is GPA and ACT scores. With high numbers, scholarships, and grants come along. The more grants and scholarships my kids get........ means a bigger boat for me!

 

[deadeye531]

I competely dissagree with this all together. I went to public school from kindergarten to 3rd grade, private from 4-8 and private from 9-half of my 10th year. I then transfered back to pubic school and I was first given more opportunities to learn and then I was given more freedom. I was allowed private time in the chem lab, bio lab, and did a work study program while I got paid for it. I also excelled in spanish class and was asked to help teach a spanish 2 class for my level 3 and 4. The only thing I learned in private school was how to do and sell drugs and alcohol if wanted. There were more drugs and alcohol there than public school. And I graduated in '02.

 

[Sniperchoke]

The whole point to this post was to prove that competition and private enterprise will be more efficient and get better results than gov't programs. This proves that there is no legitimate argument for bigger gov't..

 

[Bfish]

Sniperchoke - 8/5/2010 7:33 PM

The whole point to this post was to prove that competition and private enterprise will be more efficient and get better results than gov't programs. This proves that there is no legitimate argument for bigger gov't..

How? The vouchers are a government program. How does the public schools benefit from a voucher program? How does a private school become more efficient with a voucher program? I just don't see the data that you presented justifying your points, without much more detail explanation.

 

[beetlespin]

I agree with about everything that outcaster has said. Maybe we are just lucky. Our kids attend 2nd and 3rd grade at Daisy elementary and we feel it is a great school. Like outcaster said it really comes down to the parents and the kids. Its not the schools fault that some kids don't do well. Most of the underperforming kids don't have learning issues. They just have issues...generally from having deadbeat parents.