Slot limit, chickamuga or nickajack?

[Carl Guffey]

All of this work with spots has started me thinking on a couple of other issues. I have been hearing angler complaints about short fish and the numbers that can't seem to catch a keeper. Along the same lines as the spot issue is a thought that the current regulations on largemouth produce larger numbers of sub 15 inch fish that may also be causing a negative effect on the forage base. Would a test slot limit on either the "chick" or nickajack be acceptable for say three years. My suggestion would be to use a medium slot limit of 13 to 15 inches, with a creel of 3 fish under 13" and two fish over 15". This is not a trophy slot but a median slot designed to produce better quality fish within the entire age range.

 

[MadBomber]

What do the Biologists have to say?

 

[Carl Guffey]

Nothing as of yet just some of my musings while riding back and forth from Friendsville to Nashville. Three hours in an old truck, sometimes your mind just wanders.....

 

[Guest]

Are you kidding?? what a nightmare that would be for TX.s LOL Its enough trouble trying to get some guys to know the difference between spots and largeheads.............much less trying to keep up the numbers.....

Strictly my opinion guys...dont get flamed

 

[Guest]

Sorry Carl, I should not have said that. I do think Nickajack is fine though, keepers arent hard to catch. When I first started fishing the Nick, the limit was 15" and then it dropped down to 12". When it dropped so did the fishing, in my opinion. I think the Nick is in fine shape. Cant speak for Chick. Mother Nature takes care of herself, and its up to us to take care of her. My other .02

 

[Carl Guffey]

Actualy tournaments are not a problem. If you tournament fish dale hollow you fish a slot, lake fork a slot, and there are several others. Also most professional walleye and redfish tournaments are slots. If we changed it to 2 under and three over a two man team could potentially have six-15 plus fish in the boat. So tournaments could still have a five fish limit per team, however one man could only catch three over.

There is no reason for an apology, I asked for opinions. We live, we learn, we grow when not locked in our own little universe.

 

[Lucky Dog]

I like the idea, if it will produce bigger and more fish in the long run. I strickly catch and release so may not be a good person to give a opinion. I remember the days gone by when it was nothing to catch 50-100 fish on chick and miss them .

 

[RangerRob]

I'm for anything that will improve the fishery ... slot limits included. Since you're fishing for opinions though Carl, I'll throw this one out ...

I still think the best case scenario to improve the health of the lakes mentioned - especially the Chick - is to allow the continued re-growth of aquatic vegitation and maintaining STABLE water levels during peak feeding times (the fall) and the spawn (obviously, the spring). It doesn't so much matter if it's up or down, just that it's holding and not throwing these two valuable seasons into constant turmoil with huge differences from one day to the next.

This is just my humble .02 and I know we've discussed the grass issue and water level issues ad nauseum, but I just thought I'd throw it out there again for the sake of this topic.

And BTW Carl, kudos for seeking the input of the general public fishing community. It's nice to think that the opinions of this bunch could actually be weighed.

 

[flip1up]

Well Carl as you know, and has been said, tournament fishermen will be in opposition. You make a good point that a TEAM will still be able to have a 5 fish over slot limit. But someone fishing solo will be at a huge disadvantage obviously. But this would work well with a 3 fish tournament limit per team. Which I think is the way its going to end up. In fact, that will be a question put to members of the new Southern States Trail via a web poll in the middle of the 2007 tournament season. If we get a majority vote on a 3 fish limit we will consider doing that for the 2008 season.

 

[Carl Guffey]

For a slot to work, fish have to be harvested from the bottom, tournaments included. So why not support the slot and make teams follow slot limit for one person, three over two under. Same for singles and teams, works just like a three fish tourney with the added benefit of helping the fishery.

 

[MadBomber]

Carl,

Could you clarify what you mean by harvesting the two under. I'm still thinking in terms are moving away from a strict "catch & release" mindset to a selective harvest strategy that will improve the fishery. The idea of a 3 fish tournament limit is, I believe, a step in the right direction.

I have come to better understand that the opinion of the Area Biologist is essential in getting any change approved by the Commission. If Area Bass Clubs would voluntarily move toward 3 fish limits, the slot limit idea may gain more support.

I am anticipating not being successful at getting the spots limit raised to 15 ea/day. If the TWRA recommendation is to keep the 5 blass bass limit as-is, I'm going to suggest a compromise to separate spots from the 5 bass limit and give them a 5 spot limit of their own.

We need expert advice on Fisheries Management. Reckon where we could find some?

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RangerRob - 11/8/2006 8:04 AM

And BTW Carl, kudos for seeking the input of the general public fishing community. It's nice to think that the opinions of this bunch could actually be weighed.

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The opinions of the CFF membership will be weighed before the TWRA. I would never have approached the Commission unless I felt I had the overwhelming support of the CFF community.

 

[HangnMoss]

MadBomber - 11/8/2006 12:32 PM

Carl,

Could you clarify what you mean by harvesting the two under. I'm still thinking in terms are moving away from a strict "catch & release" mindset to a selective harvest strategy that will improve the fishery. The idea of a 3 fish tournament limit is, I believe, a step in the right direction.

Slot limits promote restrictive harvesting. For example, let's say the slot limit is 13-15 inches, with a total creel of five fish, allowing for only one fish over the slot. Your creel would be restricted to four fish under 13 inches and one fish over 15 inches. That promotes harvesting of smaller fish and restricts the taking of larger fish to one per person. Prime breeding stock (within the slot limit) is completely protected and may not be harvested at all.

Myself, I'm strongly in favor of slot limits. I'd lean towards a 13-17" slot, five fish creel, only one fish over the slot for the first two years. The third year, I'd drop the slot to 13-15", but leave the creel as-is. Slot limits have turned many a lake around and help in the development of a quality fishery.

I say try the slot limit on Nickajack first. It's a smaller body of water and the results should be easier to identify. Or push the slot limit out to both lakes, effective immediately, and the tournament fishermen can just deal with it.

 

[Carl Guffey]

Harvestinglenty of space next to the hush puppies and slaw.
Carrying to a weigh-in: if post tournament mortality is a reality,( it is) then lets use it to rid the largemouth population of the greater numbers of smaller fish. One up-side is that this also lets the bank fishermen catch a limit and still helps the general population.

Within our man made enviroments of created reservoirs there is only so much room(carrying capacity). We can have numbers or we can have quality, just like the deer population, we as anglers need to adjust our mindset from strictly catch and release to selective harvest. A slot can be a great tool, but to be effective, fish have to be harvested( see note above) from both sides of the slot.

 

[Fishin Fool]

Several thoughts here about this thread and this is just my thoughts, not meaning to offend anyone. I think the slot limit could be a good thing for folks that intend to keep fish and eat them but for me it would not have an effect on my fishing as I always release.

I do, however, think that the idea we brought up about 3 fish bags for TXs is a good one. taking into account fish mortality and introducing slot limits might be a good way to combat the decline of fishing quality. I also like the idea of a "paper" TX which has been successful here on the CFF.

I have quoted RR below because I honestly think that he brought up one of the most important points in this discussion. I think we should look at slot limits, reducing the number of fish weighed in in a TX, reducing or better scheduling TXs and increasing the spot limit. All those having been said, I can recall when the weeds were growing wild on the Chick and it was no big deal to catch and release 60 fish or more in a given day. FA knows what I am talking about, he fished it during the time and left fishing it about the same time I did because they killed all the milfoil and weeds in the lake to satisfy the dock owners and the recreational boaters. The other issue is the "up & down" water levels that are happening in the spring. Last year I honestly went to areas, saw big fish on beds, came back 3 days later and the area was DRY. Imagine what is happening to all those eggs. My guess is just that ONE issue is affecting the spawn in the chick by huge percentages.

I like Carl's idea for a stamp to help rebuild and maintain habitat, as long as we don't have a biologist step up and recommend that we get rid of the milfoil (which from what I understand is not native) and then convince someone to mount a spraying campaign. I say let the weeds do as they wish and put pressure on TVA via TWRA to stop the up and down water level in the spring. May be spitting into the wind but it is my suggestion.

RangerRob - 11/8/2006 8:04 AM

I'm for anything that will improve the fishery ... slot limits included. Since you're fishing for opinions though Carl, I'll throw this one out ...

I still think the best case scenario to improve the health of the lakes mentioned - especially the Chick - is to allow the continued re-growth of aquatic vegitation and maintaining STABLE water levels during peak feeding times (the fall) and the spawn (obviously, the spring). It doesn't so much matter if it's up or down, just that it's holding and not throwing these two valuable seasons into constant turmoil with huge differences from one day to the next.

This is just my humble .02 and I know we've discussed the grass issue and water level issues ad nauseum, but I just thought I'd throw it out there again for the sake of this topic.

And BTW Carl, kudos for seeking the input of the general public fishing community. It's nice to think that the opinions of this bunch could actually be weighed.

 

[Carl Guffey]

Without a doubt aquatic vegetation can help a fishery. Eurasian milfoil is not it. E. milfoil is a alien species, it has no natural controls, if left unchecked it will clog waterways and cripple municpal and commercial water plants. Not to forget, block out individual land owners from using their water front. The tax payer burden can be enormous. Guntersville has proven to be a good example of all stake holders coming together and solving the E. milfoil problem. Spraying along with manual eradication has brought the G to life.

One thing most of you don't know is that several scientific research projects have worked on the equation of E. milfoil in a reservoir system. Their finding are that as long as coverage remains below 40 percent of available shoreline, bass thrive. Bass numbers begin to decrease as the percent of coverage increases above fifty percent.

Because native aquatic plants developed within our ecosystem, they have natural predators and controls. There is no need for costly eradication practices and as the percentage of natural plants increase so does the productivity of the reservoir.

 

[Ronnie Garrison]

"I think the slot limit could be a good thing for folks that intend to keep fish and eat them but for me it would not have an effect on my fishing as I always release. "

That is why slot limits don't work.

Here at Lake Oconee a slot limit was established when the lake was filled. The biologists knew the lake would be somewhat nutrient poor and grow rates would be slow, and there would be too many small bass. So you can keep bass from 6 to 11 inches and over 14.

Fishermen were encouraged to keep the shorter fish, to allow the others to grow faster and better. Most club rules say a minimum of 12 inches, so that means you can't keep the short fish. And there are the fishermen like you that won't keep any short fish no matter how it affects the lake. So the slot does no good. Oconee suffers because of that attitude.

edit to add - that is the same kind of attitude that led to problems with the deer herd. No one would shoot does for years after they needed to be shot to thin the herd. That attitude has changed.

 

[flip1up]

The old catch and release mindset said you should always release all Bass that you catch. We are all learning how to better take care of an ecosystem by harvesting. It is very important to harvest certain classes of fish and these discussions are very imformative. Thanks guys.

 

[Fishin Fool]

I agree about harvesting. I'm just not that crazy about bass as a fish to eat!

 

[HangnMoss]

Carl Guffey - 11/8/2006 6:39 PM

One thing most of you don't know is that several scientific research projects have worked on the equation of E. milfoil in a reservoir system. Their finding are that as long as coverage remains below 40 percent of available shoreline, bass thrive. Bass numbers begin to decrease as the percent of coverage increases above fifty percent.

Exactly! That's why I'd like to see at least a third of the grass in Nickajack gone. I've been saying that for the last three years. Mention removing the grass and most fishermen get real defensive, real quick, yet they all agree that the fishery is in a decline. They blame the increased fishing pressure, but I blame the increase in milfoil.

 

[Carl Guffey]

Guys start a new thread if you want to talk grass, lets keep this one on slots.