small mouth and mean mouth diffrence ?

[oneshot]

Does any body know the diffrence between a small mouth and a mean mouth?I got told that a mean mouth is crossed between a spot and a small mouth is this true?

 

[SpurHunter]

That is what I understand too.

 

[MrWiskers]

Yes. Mean mouths will have coloration that is a cross between a smallie and a spot. I have only caught mabye 2 all last year out of maybe 1500 or more spots. A lot of people catch what they think are meanmouths that are really just female spots with drab coloration. Below is a pic of a 2.3lb meanmouth I got with Drumking last spring. Notice the barring down the lateral line of the fish with the typical smallmouth brown overlay. The barring is that of a spot, not the tiger pattern of a smallmouth. This fish had a very distinct tounge patch. According to litterature some smallmouths will have a tounge patch and these are not always hybrids. It is also possible for largemouths and spots to cross. Below is a fish Bbass caught with me a couple of years ago. Looks like a nice largemouth except it had a very distinct tounge patch and a smaller than normal mouth for a largemouth. The pic does not do the fish justice as this was a very different looking largemouth. May not have been a hybrid but it sure looked like one.

 

[bassncorey]

A mean mouth usually has a tongue patch like a spot but looks more like a smallmouth.

 

[UTCAngler]

This is all i could come up with.I have been wondering the same thing.

 

[polo-dog]

Yep, cross between a smallie and a spotted bass. Usually has a pattern that is a combination of typical smallmouth and spotted bass colorations. Also usually has a tooth patch on the tongue.

 

[MrWiskers]

One thing to keep in mind is coloration on fish change dramatically depending on the health and mood of the fish. Smallmouth will go from a drab brown to completely tiger striped and back again while riding in the live well. I kept aquarium fish for many years and it is unbelievable how a single fish can completely change colors at will.

 

[DHaun]

There is a meanmouth mentioned in this thread:

http://www.chattanoogafishingforum.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11765

I think I caught one last June:

 

[oneshot]

WOW! alot of goood info I just wasnt sure about what to look for to tell the diffrence.Is there a record mean mouth?

 

[craazyboutbass]

Here's a meanmouth I caught at Parksville last Spring.

 

[EricM]

oneshot - 1/15/2008 11:07 PM

WOW! alot of goood info I just wasnt sure about what to look for to tell the diffrence.Is there a record mean mouth?

The meanmouth is not recognized as a separate species by either Tennessee or the IGFA and no records are kept. The only hybrids recognized by Tennessee are the saugeye (sauger x walleye) and the Cherokee (white bass x striped bass)(recognized as the whiterock bass by the IGFA).

 

[churly]

The tounge patch is not a good identifier of a mean mouth, b/c some pure smallies have tooth patches on their tounges as well. In most TXs around here if its brown it must be 18inches. I personally dont think the hybrid situation is a good thing. I'm scared that the pure smallmouth genetics are becoming less prevalent as these aggressive spots continue to over take everything. Also, there is usually alot of different physical variations found in hybrids so its hard to give a description of exactly what a mean mouth should look like.

 

[Hogman067]

According to the TWRA officer who lives next door to me there is no such fish as a Mean Mouth Fisherman Fabricated this fish so that they could wiegh or keep short small mouth bass

 

[MrWiskers]

Hogman067 - 1/16/2008 8:07 AM

According to the TWRA officer who lives next door to me there is no such fish as a Mean Mouth Fisherman Fabricated this fish so that they could wiegh or keep short small mouth bass

Pretty funny since TWRA has a pic on one on their website.
http://www.tnfish.org/PhotoGalleryFish_TWRA/FishPhotoGallery_TWRA/TWRAFishPhotoGallery.htm

 

[BigFishGuide]

Client of mine caught this one below Nick. The color is almost an olive green with markings like a smallmouth and they have some charateristics of the spot. Just depends on which parent the fish took more after I guess.

 

[Hogman067]

if you look it is in "QUOTATIONS" get pulled over by a TWRA agent and have one in the boat that is less than 18" and see what he says the officer I know is a crelle clerk

 

[MrWiskers]

Hogman067 - 1/16/2008 3:39 PM

if you look it is in "QUOTATIONS" get pulled over by a TWRA agent and have one in the boat that is less than 18" and see what he says the officer I know is a crelle clerk

Good point. There was a thread back a while ago where someone asked a game warden about this issue and they said a tounge patch meant spot, not smallie and it would be treated as a spot. I always treat them as smallies just in case when in tournys.

Does anyone remember who said this or where the thread is that contains this?

Accoding to the fishing regs a bass with a tounge patch is a spot if read verbatum.

 

[Fishin Fool]

If you catch largemouth, smallies and spots fairly regular, a meanmouth stands out instantly as something totally different. I caught 3 or 4 last year and could very easily see they were meanmouths. I know that is a lame explanation but it's true. To me they look like a smallmouth (in coloration) with a little bit bigger mouth that is shaped more like a largemouth or spot.

 

[Carl Guffey]

Time to revisit old posts... During the great spot debate there were many varying opinions. It should be posted in the regulations this year. "if it is a black bass and has a tongue patch it will be considered a spot hybrid" This is straight from William C. Reeves, Chief of Fisheries, State of Tennessee....

Basic Genetics: Parent 1(spaat)+ Parent 2 (smallmouth)= 25% chance may look like a smallmouth, 50% chance may look like a mixture, 25% chance may look like a spot.

Parent 1 (largemouth) + Parent 2 (spaat)= 25% chance will look like a largemouth, 50% chance may look like a mixture, 25% chance will look like a spot...

Numbers and color variations go off the chart when F1's(progeny of the original hybrid) procreate with pure strain stocks.

Black bass progeny reach maturity in approximately 3 years, if a hybridization occured 12 years ago, it is conceivable and highly likely that there are F3's and F4's mating with pure strains with little or no color difference from the pure stock. If you wonder why TWRA now requires a genetic's test on all fish presented for record verification, now you know.

 

[polo-dog]

Carl, I guess the question really ends up being where they will draw the line between what they call species. Before the genetics of species were known I believe that the definition of a species only considered the way animals looked (their phenotype)and if they were able to breed and have fertile young. Now the definition has expanded to incorporate the genetic makeup of the animal (the genotype) at least for record status, but the lines between these threee species of fish, SM, LM, and Spot have been blurred because matings of these three previously designated "species" can produce fertile offspring. In the future I would expect that at some point there would be a push to make these three designations subspecies rather than distinct species. At that point we may only have a single black bass record and if the IGFA wanted to continue to publish three subspecies records they would have to designate what part of the genes of the record fish would be considered for a record catch (example: 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc.) Right now I don't think that it is fair to disqualify specimens of phenotypic spotted bass, smallmouth bass, or largemouth bass if the standing record's genotype is unknown. Does that mean that the recordbooks need to be re-written, mabe. What do you think?