small mouth and mean mouth diffrence ?

[Dropshot]

When I caught the Big One DHaun is showing above during a night tourney I ran into a ranger at the dock before the weigh and asked him to verify what he thought it was. Meanmouth was the definitive answer. In the Dark I thought I had a monster smallie, then a monster spot. I actually called my wife at 2am to see what the state record was.

Missouri is one of the only states I know of that recognize the meanmouth as a state record. I think if I had caught my fish there, I would have had a shot at a state record.

Regardless, the few I have caught have been great fun, and seem to really put up a fight.

 

[MadBomber]

After reading this post, I called Matt Majors and asked him what he would do if he checked a fisherman who had a "brown fish" with a tongue patch that was less than 18" in length.  Matt, in his best political form, said each situation would be considered on it's own merits.  He would try to work out the issue with the fisherman on the water by judging the characteristics of the fish, taking a picture of it , etc.  He said that most of the time the fisherman will release the fish just to eliminate any conflict.  But, Matt did say that he prefers to "err on the side of the Sportsman."</p>

Bill Reeves very well may have said that "if it's a bass with a tongue patch, it's a spot", but the officer on the water is the final authority.  And, I don't think that Bill will be willing to appear in court when the citation is heard.  I'm betting the Judge will go with the Officers opinion.</p>

Since I don't fish Tx's, it's not an issue with me.  Personally, I would not like to have to try to convince a TWRA officer that a Fish is a "Meanmouth and not a Smallmouth".</p>

Since this is primarily a Tx issue, what do the weighmasters on the forum have to say about it?  </p>

 

[MrWiskers]

MadBomber - 1/17/2008 6:40 AM



Since this is primarily a Tx issue, what do the weighmasters on the forum have to say about it?  </p>

Like I said above in toruny's I have ran or fished if is looks like a smallie, it is a smallie. We had this same rule in the spot fest and our weekly dogfights just to be safe. I personally would like to catch more meanmouths as the one picutured above was one of the hardest fighting bass I have caught.

I agree with Polo's comment that the current records are suspect. For example is the current state record spot a hybrid? Could be.

 

[Guest]

In this thread I see lots of pics of spotted bass, one or two could be crosses (meanmouth) but I highly doubt it. Hybrids are less than 0.5% of the population (<1 in 500).

Lots of people have trouble identifying spots. Color is the worst thing to go off of, IMO. Also the whole behind the eye thing works well except when you have skinny or fat fish, for normal size ones it seems to work well.

Here is what Etneir/Starnes FISHES OF TN has to say:

SPOT: Sides of body with a distinct wide, often irregular, black lateral stripe or nearly confuluent blotches. Dorsal fins not well seperated, the length of the shortest posterior spine more than half the length of the longest spine; lower sides usually with rows of dark spots; tongue with a rectangular median tooth patch; basal one-third of soft dorsal and anal fin membranes with scales; mouth smaller (than largemouth), the maxillary not extending behind eye;

LARGEMOUTH: Sides of body with a distinct wide, often irregular, black lateral stripe or nearly confuluent blotches. Dorals fins appearing well seperated; length of shortest posterior spine less than half the length of the longest spine; lower sides without rows of spots (may have a few scattered dusky spots); tongue without rectangular median tooth patch; soft dorsal and anal fin membrances lacking scales (a basal sheath one scale row wide may be present); mouth large (doh); the maxillary extending behind eye in specimens over 150 mm

SMALLMOUTH: Sides of body lacking a black midlateral stripe or blotches, being uniformly ducky or with vertical bars. Scales above lateral line 12-13; dorsal fin soft rays usually 13-14; lower sides rather uniform dusky (although color varies greatly).

The book goes on details of other traits that you can count to help further seperate the species.

One other key I look at is the lateral line. Smallmouth start flat (near the head) and then angle upward (about 15 degree upward) and then arch to the tail where the lateral line flattens back out. On Spots the flat area is shorter in length and the you don't have the ramping upward, just a continous arch (slightly taller too) until the tail area.

So this is how I id a spot vs smallie:
1) Mouth size, behind the eye thing
2) blotches along side (spot has them)
3) dorsal fin (spots conected, smallies not)
4) tongue patch (spots have them)
5) lateral line curve (see above)
6) Scales above lateral line (smallies 12-13).

 

[Guest]

polo-dog - 1/16/2008 10:02 PM
... Before the genetics of species were known I believe that the definition of a species only considered the way animals looked (their phenotype)...

Phenotype includes more things than just the coloration. Anything that can be counted or measured externally should be included.

 

[polo-dog]

I didn't mean to use incorrect terminology. When I said "the way animals looked " I could have said the animal's anatomic characteristics. Sometimes it's just hard to find the right words you know?

 

[Dropshot]

Speaking of Meanmouths...David, can you hook me up and add me and my meanie to the HOF? Show a brother some love!!!

Nothing like a little politicking...

 

[Guest]

This might have been asked, cause I haven't read all the messages in this thread, but is it possible for a largemouth and a smallmouth to mate and produce offspring? I would think so since they are both members of the black bass family.

I have only caught one mean-mouth in my time, and it was on Weiss, and I was told by a local guide there that it was a cross between a largemouth and a spot. The fish I caught looked more like a spot, but with a much larger mouth than a spot has. I wish that I would have taken a picture of it.

Another thing............is it possible that some lakes will have more hybrids that are smallmouthXspot versus largemouthXspot? Could the pH, etc., effect this?

 

[polo-dog]

In the past I have read about crosses between LM and SM bass. Here's a link to an article that reports that it has happened in a Texas resivior. I would expect that it happens more than what we would think. I think that the LMxSpot is a lot more common than either the SMxLM or the SMxSpot combos. I think that it depends on what part of a resivior you are surveying as to which happens more commonly, the LMxSpot or the SMxSpot. In the riverine parts of the lake I would expect more SMxSpot and in the Lake portion of the lake I would expect more LMxSpot, just because there are fewer LM in the river and fewer SM in the lake. That is assuming that we are talking about the TN river. In northern lakes there are very few Spots and in lakes farther south there are very few Smallies. I will look in the reference bood that I have and see if Eitner comments on the subject and let you know.

 

[Bassallday]

I thaught a meanmouth was a cross of a smallmouth and a spot.I have caught a couple of these in chesterfrost park and they have a spot on there toung like a spot but they are brown like a smallmouth.