smoke this over
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FishingwithRusty
Well-known member
judging by your user name, i figure you know numbers..............LOOK at the statistics, ALL of them, do the research and you will see
I agree with you CPA. You can take numbers and make them look like whatever you need them to look like. It is easy to do what is right when everything is fine and going your way. But, your true character comes to light in times like these. Numbers looked like Sweden was doing things the right way for a couple of days. Now their death toll and reported cases are way ahead of their neighboring countries. You have the right to risk your life. What you don't have a right to do is risk mine. Before someone says if I choose to go out in public I am the one exposing myself. My family has to eat. I have to go get groceries and I am at risk while doing that. People that have been acting like nothing is wrong can expose me to the virus. It is just selfish. They have times for old people to buy groceries. I just wish they would have time for business as usual people to get theirs. That way I could protect myself. My family relies on me too much for me to be selfish.
FishingwithRusty
Well-known member
emoBang did you even read the article? are you keeping up with new data or just what youre being fed on msm?
I read the article. I guess it is normal to have to store bodies in refrigerated trucks because the funeral homes can't handle the number of deaths. I guess it is normal for nurses and doctors to work 15 hour days and not be able to go home and hug their kids. I guess it is normal for hospitals to have patients lined up in the halls. I guess it is normal to have to prepare the convention center for patient overflow.
I have a daughter and a son-in-law who are doctors and on the front line. I hear what they are telling me and then read some BS like this article.
My cousin is a nurse and now has it.
I am not smart enough to how this thing spreads or how deadly it is, but be assured I am going to do everything I can to keep it out of my house. You have to do what you think is right for you, good luck!
I have a daughter and a son-in-law who are doctors and on the front line. I hear what they are telling me and then read some BS like this article.
My cousin is a nurse and now has it.
I am not smart enough to how this thing spreads or how deadly it is, but be assured I am going to do everything I can to keep it out of my house. You have to do what you think is right for you, good luck!
I read it, Rusty. I just don't agree with you. Any attempt to compare covid-19 to the flu is beyond stupid. The flu does not leave long term life change damage to your lungs. Covid-19 can and does. The FACTS I stated about Sweden come from multiple news sources. You will never convince me that me being selfish and doing what I want when I want right now is the best thing to do. The risk is too great. I don't care how many numbers you dig up or when you dug them up. For the sake of myself and my family, I need to do the safe thing. You may not. More power to you. Take the chance if you want. Just PLEASE don't go to a grocery store in Cleveland. I don't want to accidentally run into you. I can't wait for things to get back to normal and they will. This is not the first medical crisis this country has faced. We faced many during the 30's and 40's. I am sure some things will change going forward. The changes may be for the better. Years ago Doctors would cut your arm off if it had a bad break. They don't do that anymore. All change is not bad. I wish you the best Rusty. I just wish you would stop trying to stir up people. Not agreeing with each other is one of the things that make this country great. Don't get me wrong if the temporary infringement on our rights becomes permanent you won't have to ask for my help. I will be in front of you.
FishingwithRusty
Well-known member
im sharing this information and trying to educate folks to alleviate some of the fear that has been created around this. you can continue to be ignorant and afraid by your choice but its not because i didnt try.
Rusty, I just came from seeing my doctor this morning. I have recently had pneumonia, I have bronchitis and asthma. My doctor says I need to be concerned. As for educating me, that is funny. I will take an IQ test with you when this is over. I will pay for the test if you beat me. But, we are going to post the scores here. lol You have made statements recently about we are never going to get our freedoms back and this only the beginning. You have no way to know that. Comments like that are made to scare people not to educate them. Again best wishes.
FishingwithRusty
Well-known member
FishingwithRusty
Well-known member
the ability to have a conversation about difficult subjects is important!!
So you are getting your info from some guy off of Youtube? roflmao My 9-year-old grandson has a youtube account he makes past from time to time. You should check him out. You can not change the fact that dead bodies are laying in the back of refrigerated trucks because Funeral homes can't process them. THAT IS IN NOWAY NORMAL. One death from this, that could have been prevented is one too many. The Governor just said that by May 1st. most businesses will be back open. Some of the state parks are opening up the end of this week. Just hang in there until May 1st. Have a nice day. Hope to see you on the water later.
Rusty, check the source of your first article. That is one whacked out web site espousing the Austrian theory of economics. That is the whole purpose of why they exist. They don't know squat about medicine and only push ideas that back their economic theory.
Rusty, check the source of your first article. That is one whacked out web site espousing the Austrian theory of economics. That is the whole purpose of why they exist. They don't know squat about medicine and only push ideas that back their economic theory.
This will all be over soon . Probably about middle of June after everything opens up and all these, gonna get my guns and make me work in a coal mine people go ape shit going everywhere they can and lay all over one another cause they think they have been held down by the government . We have a adopted daughter that works as icu nurse at Johns Hopkins hospital and has been there since beginning of all this. When you have refrigerated trucks that hold 85 bodies each lined up ten deep every week , you have a serious problem. This is like playing Russian roulette , maby you will survive maby not. Being in good health , being young doesn't have anything to do with severity of symptoms or death. She said they have had patients with positive test three or four times for over a month with absolutely no symptoms. On that same note she has had patients come in barely sick and die within 5 or 6 hours. The example we have had is only New York City! Once this gets going nation wide 10,000 deaths a day , but by all means we shouldn't stop people's right to kill themselves or someone else in their family after all this is a free country.
danrnsmyth
Well-known member
The preamble outlines the party's goals: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. [...] Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands". Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual". The Statement of Principles is foundational to the ideology of the party and was created specifically to bind the party to certain core principles with a high parliamentary burden for any amendment.[46]
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]The preamble outlines the party's goals: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. [...] Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands". Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual". The Statement of Principles is foundational to the ideology of the party and was created specifically to bind the party to certain core principles with a high parliamentary burden for any amendment.[46]
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]The preamble outlines the party's goals: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. [...] Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands". Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual". The Statement of Principles is foundational to the ideology of the party and was created specifically to bind the party to certain core principles with a high parliamentary burden for any amendment.[46]
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]
While I understand the principles of no one being having to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others , it seems that neither should "others" have the right to override their fellowmans values or health (or perhaps family members health) for the benefit of others. It is hard for me to be unbiased as I know 7 people sick with these virus from hell that includes four from one family of a fellow fisherman . He has been hospitalized for ten days and Thursday we thought he was gone, but is now doing better by the grace of God. 50 years old and pretty lean guy. I know we all just see what portion of our lives as it affects us and not always how it affects others, but from what I have seen I would think you have to err on the side of caution. My perception is that our governments dont want to seize our rights forever (they like the tax revenues too much to do so) they have been forced to make some hard choices until such time there is a better option . I kinda thought the more we could stand down short term and faster we could return to a more normal life without the burden of unknowningly transmitting this disease to someone else . I dont see this as a New World Order but just a serious life threatening virus that is has forced some tough decisions in an effort to control something where their is not currently a perfect answer . It is indeed tragic for the loss of jobs and employment ,and I spent all winter restoring an old Ranger 391XT but after witnessing what these families have been through for me personally... I can wait ,,just my perspective after what little I have seen. Keep Willie in your prayers...
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]The preamble outlines the party's goals: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. [...] Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands". Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual". The Statement of Principles is foundational to the ideology of the party and was created specifically to bind the party to certain core principles with a high parliamentary burden for any amendment.[46]
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]The preamble outlines the party's goals: "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others. [...] Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands". Its Statement of Principles begins: "We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual". The Statement of Principles is foundational to the ideology of the party and was created specifically to bind the party to certain core principles with a high parliamentary burden for any amendment.[46]
The platform emphasizes individual liberty in personal and economic affairs, avoidance of "foreign entanglements" and military and economic intervention in other nations' affairs, and free trade and migration. The party opposes gun control. It calls for Constitutional limitations on government as well as the elimination of most state functions. It includes a "Self-determination" section which quotes from the Declaration of Independence and reads: "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to agree to such new governance as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty". It also includes an "Omissions" section which reads: "Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval".[47]
The party favors minimally regulated markets, a less powerful federal government, strong civil liberties (including LGBT rights, with the party supporting same-sex marriage), the liberalization of drug laws, separation of church and state, open immigration, non-interventionism and neutrality in diplomatic relations, free trade and free movement to all foreign countries and a more representative republic.[47] The party's position on abortion is that government should stay out of the matter and leave it to the individual, but recognizes that some "good-faith" opinions on this issue are different.[48] Ron Paul, one of the former presidential nominees of the Libertarian Party in 1988, is strictly anti-abortion. Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 and 2016 presidential candidate, is pro-abortion rights, as were most of the party's past nominees other than Paul.
The Statement of Principles was written by John Hospers.[49] The Libertarian Party's bylaws specify that a 7/8ths supermajority of delegates is required to change the Statement of Principles.[50] Any proposed platform plank found by the Judicial Committee to conflict with the Statement requires approval by a three-fourths supermajority of delegates.[51] Early platform debates included at the first convention whether to support tax resistance and at the 1974 convention whether to support anarchism. In both cases, a compromise was reached.[52]
While I understand the principles of no one being having to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others , it seems that neither should "others" have the right to override their fellowmans values or health (or perhaps family members health) for the benefit of others. It is hard for me to be unbiased as I know 7 people sick with these virus from hell that includes four from one family of a fellow fisherman . He has been hospitalized for ten days and Thursday we thought he was gone, but is now doing better by the grace of God. 50 years old and pretty lean guy. I know we all just see what portion of our lives as it affects us and not always how it affects others, but from what I have seen I would think you have to err on the side of caution. My perception is that our governments dont want to seize our rights forever (they like the tax revenues too much to do so) they have been forced to make some hard choices until such time there is a better option . I kinda thought the more we could stand down short term and faster we could return to a more normal life without the burden of unknowningly transmitting this disease to someone else . I dont see this as a New World Order but just a serious life threatening virus that is has forced some tough decisions in an effort to control something where their is not currently a perfect answer . It is indeed tragic for the loss of jobs and employment ,and I spent all winter restoring an old Ranger 391XT but after witnessing what these families have been through for me personally... I can wait ,,just my perspective after what little I have seen. Keep Willie in your prayers...
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