Time to put up or shut up

Chattanooga Fishing Forum

Help Support Chattanooga Fishing Forum:

outcaster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Harrison, TN
On several of these threads, especially the ones about Healthcare, many posters are always talking about the evils of Socialism. And how the proposed plan to fix the healthcare system is Socialism, un-American, and down right evil. Somone has even said on this forum that our President is a Socialist and "is evil in a pure enough form as to be the right hand man of the antichrist and certainly a minion of Satan himself". Wow!

Recenty at one on these "Town Hall" meetings discussing Healthcare reform, many were shouting down the speaker. Finally she was able to get a word in, and asked for a show of hands of those with Medicare. Over half of the audience raised their hand. Then she asked them how many of them were willing to give it up. Not a single hand was left in the air. This got me to thinking about our "Socialism Services"

So if you want to play the "Socialist" card, here's what you need to do:

Option 1: If any of you are Senior Citizens, and have Medicare as your Healthcare insurance this is what you need to do: On Monday call the Medicare office and tell them that you and your spouse will no longer be using Medicare. Then call the Social Security office and tell them to stop sending those checks every month. Tell them that both of those programs are products of Socialism, and are un-American. After those phone calls have been made and you are now free from the Gov't. Now you will need to A: Call BCBS and setup a healthcare insurance plan for you and your spouse. or B: Go back to work and get a job with a company that provides healthcare insurance. Now you can argue Socialism!

Option 2: If any of the rest of you have parents or grandparents that have Medicare here's what you need to do. This weekend call up mom and dad or grandma, and convince them that Medicare and Social Security has always been the plan of the Socialists and their minions to take over every part of our lives. I'm sure they will quickly agree with you, and will no longer acccept Gov't assistance. After you have convinced mom and dad or grandma and grandpa to give up "Socialism Services", you will now need to A: Go into work on Monday, go straight to the HR office and add mom and dad or grandma and grandpa to your company's healthcare plan as your dependents. or B: Call BCBS and set them up with a health insurance policy just as good as Medicare, which, of course you will pay the premiums, deductables and co-payments. You will also need to write mom and dad a check every month, to cover the Social Security that they have decided to no longer take. Now you can argue Socialism!

Once Option 1 or 2 have been completed let all of us know!

There are many aspects to discuss involving Healthcare. Like: Can we as a Nation afford such a plan? Can the Gov't operate a portion, or all of the healthcare system? Is there really a Healthcare crisis? What about tort reform? Is quality Healthcare for all Americans a Right or a Privilege? Why are health insurance company's fighting so hard against any kind of reform? All good topics for discussion with valid points to be made on both sides.

But don't argue "Socialism" until you put your money where your mouth is!
 
By the way...which party crammed Medicare through? I believe it was the democrats under Johnson. I guess fortunately for me, my father was wise and fortunate enough to work for a company that until this day provides supplemental insurance for Medicare. And let's think...what did Nobama says provided the biggest hurdle to the current and future deficit....Medicare and Medicaid. </p>

Here is a good idea...if you have chosen a job where you do not have insurance, that is your choice. I believe people have to get up off their rear ends and be accountable for themselves. If I had not responsibilities then I could get a part-time job and fish most of the time, but the difference is my parents instilled characteristics in me such as pride, work ethics, and business ethics; as well as the fact that God tells <u>me</u> in his Bible to care for my family, not to ask for government intervention.</p>
 
The problem is that we have already gone too far toward a socialistic country. The ones who are footing the bill for it are fed up and don't want anymore. The time has come to say enough is enough. That is exactly what the people are doing. Like it or not this is a grassroots effort and is gaining momentum daily.

I would like to ask a question or two along these lines if I may. How far are those of you that want this healthcare legislation willing to go to get what you want? How much of your freedom are you willing to give up for "security"? Where is the point where YOU say enough is enough? I am not trying to be argumentative right now. I genuinely want to know. How much will you let the government have?
 
Dropshot, I believe the key phrase in your response was "forunate enough". Then you folllowed that up by suggesting that people that have poor quality healthcare or none at all does not have as much: (your words) Pride, Work ethics, or Business Ethics as you do. Then talk about God and the Bible. Have you actually read your Bible? If you had, you should know better. So, is Dad going to call Medicare and Social Security to cancel or not?
 
I draw social security every month and they pay almost 99% of the bills when I have to use, say hospital care, doctor visits. I pay for my medicine out of my pocket So I am not griping about social security at all, if it is a socialism company, so be it. I don't think I am the only one drawing soc. security in this state, we get a cost of living raise every year but they also go up on my medicare premiums.
 
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Yes, my dad was "fortunate" (called spellcheck) enough, worked for everything he has. And I have been blessed with characteristics such as pride (personal responibility for my actions), work ethic, and business ethics. God has instilled these things in me. And I know where you are going, as the pride I refer to is not a pride for worldly things or self-arrogance of worldly accomplishments, but a personal dedication to seek God's direction in my life so that <u>Christ, not my job, or my presidential "savior" gets the glory</u>..Maybe to satisfy the liberals I should have used the phrase <u>"personal responsibility". Lets try that...it goes like this...Everything that exists in your life exists because of you, because of your behavior, words and actions. Because you have freedom of choice and because you have chosen each and every circumstance of your life, you are completely responsible for all of your success and failure, your happiness and unhappiness, your present and future.
</u></font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">What about you? Let me guess, do you have sorry insurance or need some government freebies? </font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">As for reading the Bible,You pull verses out of context like you have in earlier posts, so you might want to think about that. Like this one:</font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3"><font face="Verdana"><font color="#990033">Acts 2:44-45 (King James Version)

44:And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45:And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.</font>

</font></font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">How about abortion, do you believe in that as well? That is part of your party platform, is it not? Killing babies...sounds like a manly thing. How about third-trimester abortions?</font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">My father has been blessed financially to the point he could drop Medicare if he wanted. He would probably say he paid Social Security and Medicare taxes for 50 years so he is getting what he paid for well in advance. Of course, his advice for you might be the same as it many of us feel about the government and the freeloading libs, mind your own %^* business and try and take care of your own house, without trying to steal anymore of our hard-earned money!!! </font></p>

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">I would advise against startingpersonal attacks with me or anyone else...</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3" /></p>
 
Doc1 - 8/14/2009 10:12 PM

I draw social security every month and they pay almost 99% of the bills when I have to use, say hospital care, doctor visits. I pay for my medicine out of my pocket So I am not griping about social security at all, if it is a socialism company, so be it. I don't think I am the only one drawing soc. security in this state, we get a cost of living raise every year but they also go up on my medicare premiums.

Doc, you paid into it while working, and now you are drawing on it....nothing wrong with that. I know a guy that has never worked a real job, is drawing SSI, and spends all his money on booze. He lives in an apt we all pay for, and does not pay a dime for rent. He does not pay for water or ele, and sleeps all day every day.Health care for him is free. Now granted, this is no way to live, but why does the government allow this? Why not just tell them, you can work or starve? He is capable of working, and was half way to a degree when he turned into an alcoholic. At what point do we say enough is enough?
 
jon the fisherman - 8/14/2009 10:25 PM
Doc1 - 8/14/2009 10:12 PM I draw social security every month and they pay almost 99% of the bills when I have to use, say hospital care, doctor visits. I pay for my medicine out of my pocket So I am not griping about social security at all, if it is a socialism company, so be it. I don't think I am the only one drawing soc. security in this state, we get a cost of living raise every year but they also go up on my medicare premiums.
Doc, you paid into it while working, and now you are drawing on it....nothing wrong with that. I know a guy that has never worked a real job, is drawing SSI, and spends all his money on booze. He lives in an apt we all pay for, and does not pay a dime for rent. He does not pay for water or ele, and sleeps all day every day.Health care for him is free. Now granted, this is no way to live, but why does the government allow this? Why not just tell them, you can work or starve? He is capable of working, and was half way to a degree when he turned into an alcoholic. At what point do we say enough is enough?
</p>

</p>

I agree, sooner or later you have to draw a line in the sand for those who refuse to work, or work leisurelywhen there is no physical or mental reason they cannot go out and get a job like the rest of us.</p>
 
What I want to know is when I get to the retirement age and social security is out of money, do I get a refend on the thousands and thousands of dollars I paid in? I would like to choose to have the benefit of social security? Lets say I sign a waiver that I will never get on or receive any money form social security, can I stop paying?

The answer is no. Socialism is when you don't have a choice. In the next 10 years SS will pay out more money than it recieves. Medicare is already there or almost. I will spend a life time paying these "taxes" and never get a penny. Pretty fair huh.
 
I see several good points here and here are my answers to the above questions. These are my opinions and thoughts, please don't start personally attacking me:

Can we as a Nation afford such a plan? Our debt has grown exponentially just since last January. The only way to pay for this is by increasing taxes on not only the wealthy but also on the Middle Class. As mentioned above, Obama himself has said that Medicare and Medicaid as a two-headed monster that is a major issue with the federal budget.

Can the Gov't operate a portion, or all of the healthcare system? The governments plan is for it to operate all of it. And regardless of what is being said now, Obama has been a proponent of a single-payor system for five years.

Is there really a Healthcare crisis? There is a crisis if you are the one without insurance. Do you blame it on the doctors? It costs nearly 300K for a doctor to attend school, so they must charge to recoup their money and pay their bills. Do you blame it on the insurance companies. Our capitalistic system allows them to set premiums. How about pre-existing conditions?

What about tort reform? I saw an interview that said congress decided now was not the time to discuss tort reform.

Is quality Healthcare for all Americans a Right or a Privilege? I believe your are neither entitled or deserving of healthcare. If you work at a company offering it great. Otherwise, to be covered you should get yourself a private plan. The last time I checked, the founding fathers did not write anything about healthcare into the documents of our country.

Why are health insurance company's fighting so hard against any kind of reform? This is wrong. Even BO said today in Montana that some insurance companies are working for reform. The reason many oppose it is because they are fighting for their existance. In a single-payor system, where the government is set to fine companies for not switching to their plan, private insurance companies could start dropping like flies. How about the job losses if a company like Blue Cross shuts its doors.
 
AirrusBoy - 8/14/2009 11:11 PM I see several good points here and here are my answers to the above questions. These are my opinions and thoughts, please don't start personally attacking me: Can we as a Nation afford such a plan? Our debt has grown exponentially just since last January. The only way to pay for this is by increasing taxes on not only the wealthy but also on the Middle Class. As mentioned above, Obama himself has said that Medicare and Medicaid as a two-headed monster that is a major issue with the federal budget. Can the Gov't operate a portion, or all of the healthcare system? The governments plan is for it to operate all of it. And regardless of what is being said now, Obama has been a proponent of a single-payor system for five years. Is there really a Healthcare crisis? There is a crisis if you are the one without insurance. Do you blame it on the doctors? It costs nearly 300K for a doctor to attend school, so they must charge to recoup their money and pay their bills. Do you blame it on the insurance companies. Our capitalistic system allows them to set premiums. How about pre-existing conditions? What about tort reform? I saw an interview that said congress decided now was not the time to discuss tort reform. Is quality Healthcare for all Americans a Right or a Privilege? I believe your are neither entitled or deserving of healthcare. If you work at a company offering it great. Otherwise, to be covered you should get yourself a private plan. The last time I checked, the founding fathers did not write anything about healthcare into the documents of our country. Why are health insurance company's fighting so hard against any kind of reform? This is wrong. Even BO said today in Montana that some insurance companies are working for reform. The reason many oppose it is because they are fighting for their existance. In a single-payor system, where the government is set to fine companies for not switching to their plan, private insurance companies could start dropping like flies. How about the job losses if a company like Blue Cross shuts its doors.
</p>

Are you the same guy stirring the pot on Chattanoogan.com?</p>
 
Cheez, Good question. I believe our society is a healthy mixture of Capitalism and Socialism. If either one of those two forms of gov't is left to themselves they both will fail. If socialism is left un-checked it will quickly turn into Communism, where free expression of words and ideas are squashed, as well as inovation. If capitalism is left un-checked it will always lead to greed seeking the almighty dollar. Things like slavery, un-safe working conditions, and abuses like we saw taking place on Wall St. recenty are a few examples. I also support any individual or company making all the money they can, provided they don't cheat, harm, and are ethical. I believe certain things in our society are too important to us (most of them life or death) as a Nation to be contriolled as a for profit entity. Things like the Military, FBI, CDC, HUD, Natonal Parks, FDD, FDIC, DEA, USDA, CIA, NSA, Federal Reserve, NASA, Air Traffic Controllers, and a few others. I believe most people will agree that these things should not be "For Profit". The Gov't should also do as stated in the Preamble to the Constitution "promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. By doing things like stimulate the economy when necessary, provide things like education assistance, have programs like the GI Bill. We as Americans have set up a pretty good system of what we want our Gov't to take care of, and should hold them accountable. I simply believe our National Healthcare is too important, after all it is "Life or Death", and should finally be included with the other things we fund our Gov't to do for us or assist us with. Deciding how we are going to pay for these things is always a good and healthy debate. What is being proposed on healthcare is not a takeover, but a plan to fill in the gaps that our "for profit" system is unwilling to manage or address. Does anyone actually think the health insurance companys could turn a profit it they had to insure the people that are on Medicare? They have a pretty sweet deal insuring only the healthiest segments of our society, and won't give it up easily. Things I want my Gov't to stay out of: my bedroom, my marriage, my religion, a womans womb, my telephone line and internet connection. If those thoughts and ideas make me a Pinko, Liberal, Commie, then I guess I am one.
 
Unfortuately, the Federal Reserve is not controlled by the government. This is where we all kind of miss the boat, it is a bunch of bankers that set the money policies in America.
 
Wow dropshot, quite a post, so much to choose from. First: I do have healthcare coverage, (wanna see my card?). I also understand that my healthcare coverage can be gone in an instant. As I said to someone else on this forum. "Now I remember why I don't go to Church anymore". Please don't pray for me! As for the Bible, don't you believe in the "literal" interpretation of Gods word? Seems the only time something is taken out of context is when it does not fit your idiology. I've forgotten more Bible than most people bothered to learn. You guys are all alike, you wrap yourself in the Flag, hide behind the Bible while looking down on others less fortunate than yourself calling them (your words), freeloading liberals, stealing your hard earned money. A pretty sad commentary coming from someone representing a so-called Christian organization proclaiming the values taught by Jesus Christ. It's really easy and quite fun to draw guys like you out of the woodwork by having you "out" yourself with your own words. As for personal attacks, is that a threat? Are you going to beat me up? What would Jesus think? Patrick, if you can't take the response, don't type the post. rotflmao
 
Folks one of the few rules here is to refrain from attacks. Outcaster and dropshot you might want to continue your discussion offline over email or another form of communication. Thanks guys
 
Where is the line Danny? When do you and people like you say ok I am satisfied? Do you even know where this point is? If y'all have a goal in mind please share with all of us. Personally I would like to know so I can determine if I can help you meat that goal. If your goal is realistic and you say that you will stop taking from me then I will continue to work 70 to 100 hour weeks to help you guys out like I have been most of my life. If you do not know when you will be satisfied or if your goal is unrealistic then I might as well quit banging my head against the wall. I might as well quit going to work when the pain in my back is so severe that I can barely walk. If you are never going to be satified then I might as well join you. I promise you that there is enough wrong with me that I can find a doctor and a lawyer to get me hooked up with some disability checks. Then the guys that are still working can read my fishing report posts and cheer me on.
Let me know pretty soon Danny. Man I am tired and ready to join you.
 
Danny, call it what you want- spin it however you want. But, the money that hopefully will be paidto me in SS and Medicareis <font color="#ff0000">MY MONEY</font>- money that <font color="#ff0000">I PAID</font> to the government out of every paycheck I earned. I expect to get <font color="#ff0000">MY MONEY</font> back when I reach that age. Perhaps you should read your pay stub and question what that FICA and Medicare tax is that you pay.</p>

I further find the title of this post tremendously ironic. It appears something recently has set you off politically, judging by you recent posts. Why do you post your satire here? To what end? You should call and/or write your elected officials and begin the conversation using the title of this post. Your chance of getting the desired results are much better.</p>
 

Latest posts

Back
Top