Tims Ford Smallmouth - even bad anglers get lucky

[m17glock]

carl is right on the money here guys. i have had long discussions with several different fisheries biologist in this area about "trophy" fish and their life cycle.</p>

in general (at least on chickamauga lake ) 5-6lb+ smallmouth , 8-10lb+ largemouth and 2-1/2 lb+ crappie are going to be PAST their prime reproductive time </p>

and most likely are not reproducing at all. also being that they are "older" they would have a MUCH higher delayed mortality , they most likely wouldn't survive</p>

long enough to be caught again.
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that being said they have indeed had a long enough life span to have many generations of their genetics swimming around out there already. </p>

now with genetics being what it is that doesn't mean that all of their offspring will get to be as large as they got to be, and some may get to be bigger. </p>

look at me and my family as an example. with the genetics in my family i could have been 7ft tall and bald (i have an uncle who is 7'2" and looks like mr.clean). i am not. i am just barley 6ft tall but i do have a full head of hair. however my 14yo son is 6'5" </p>

now as a side note i personally wouldn't keep a "trophy" fish like that to eat (i would put on the wall though) as another uncle taught me a long time ago " it doesn't matter what kind </p>

of creature it is whether it fly's, walks the ground or swims in the water. the older it is the gamier it will taste"
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[fish4thepeck]

I'm 60 years old and still fan the bed and try my best to take part in the spawning process.

 

[donberry]

just my thoughts - now I do think it is a nice fish, but from reading guides fishing reports etc, a 5 - 5 1/2 lb smallmouth is really not that uncommon on Tims. Nice fish, yes. Trophy fish, nah, hopefully it will be just one of many more to come.

As far as "trophy" fish reproduction = it takes big fish to make big fish and we would really just be talking about a big fish passing on it's dna if I am not mistaken ? According to the Tennessee Smallmouth Management Plan, it takes 4 years for a reservoir smallmouth to reach 14" (6 years in a stream). I did not see this info there, but another site says it takes 6 years for a tennessee smallmouth to reach 18". According to the Tn. Smallmouth M.P., the mortality rate of reservoir bass is between 40%-60%.
I am pretty sure a smallmouth starts to reproduce at around age 3.
A female will lay between 2,000 and 14,000 eggs.
Both males and females normally reproduce with more than one partner.

So, just taking a look at these facts, a 18" long smallmouth has been reproducing for at least 3 years. If it is a female, that means it has laid between 6,000 and 42,000 eggs. If it is a male, as they normally have more than 1 partner, the number of eggs that they would have had "a hand" in is actually pretty staggering - and that is for a 6 year old bass. Add a few more years in for a 20" or, in my case, a 21" one.

Now cut those numbers in approximately half to make up for the 40-60% mortality rate.
We will guess low and say it had the best possible conditions and it took it 8 years to reach 21" - let's also say it produced the least amount of eggs possible, only 2,000 a year.
So before she found her way to my table, her dna was passed on to a minimum of 10,000 eggs (starts reproducing at age 3, so 8-3)

Now let's pretend that this particular smallmouth just has absolutely horrible luck and instead of the normal 40-60% mortality rate, her brood had an extremely high 75% mortality rate.
So using the absolutely worst possible numbers, this fish still has 2500 "children" swimming around waiting to pass on her dna.
year 2 was horrible and something terrible happened and they had another 75% mortality rate.
Now there are still 625 swimming around.
Year 3 rolls around and they are now ready to reproduce themselves, but let's say that again something horrible happens and before they get the chance to reproduce, they have another 75% mortality rate.
That means that under the absolutely preposterously worst conditions possible, there are still 156 bass with her dna, getting passed on.

But what about her sisters or brothers ? Wouldn't they have had the same DNA - Guess that means you would have to multiply those numbers every year by 156 -
point being - eaten or not, there are still a whole bunch of fish swimming around with that smallmouth's dna.

Now if everyone took home a limit every time they went fishing, well, then we have a problem. But I think that problem would also arise even if everyone took home a limit of 18" fish every time they went out because the only real difference between that 18" one and the 21" one is a few years extra growth.

Just my opinion, but I do not see me taking home an occasional 5+ lb smallmouth harming the fishery in any way whatsoever.
And have to say, I always hear the 15" ones taste better, but that 21" tasted mighty good to me ....(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[SpurHunter]

fish4thepeck - 12/29/2011 11:09 AM I'm 60 years old and still fan the bed and try my best to take part in the spawning process.

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More power to ya! Glad all your equipment is still working at your age!</p>

 

[fish4thepeck]

''just my thoughts - now I do think it is a nice fish, but from reading guides fishing reports etc, a 5 - 5 1/2 lb smallmouth is really not that uncommon on Tims."


Having fished Tims since 1972, 5lb sm on Tims are very rare reguardless what the guides say.

 

[mallardecho]

fish4thepeck - 12/29/2011 1:26 PM

''just my thoughts - now I do think it is a nice fish, but from reading guides fishing reports etc, a 5 - 5 1/2 lb smallmouth is really not that uncommon on Tims."


Having fished Tims since 1972, 5lb sm on Tims are very rare reguardless what the guides say.

Yep..........I have seen probably 1000 smallmouth weighed in on Tim's over the last 4 years and can only remember 5 off the top of my head that were over 5 pounds. They are there but not common. Maybe I need to hire a guide...................

 

[fish4thepeck]

SpurHunter - 12/29/2011 1:23 PM

fish4thepeck - 12/29/2011 11:09 AM I'm 60 years old and still fan the bed and try my best to take part in the spawning process.

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 More power to ya! Glad all your equipment is still working at your age! </p>

I should have said fanning the covers I eat a lot of tunafish and speckled butterbeans

 

[donberry]

<div>mallardecho and fish4the peck - well now I hope you guys are happy. While I thought it was a nice fish, I never really realized how nice a fish it was.......

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In all seriousness, I read thru the fishing reports the guides post all of the time (yes, I am searching for clues - not where but on what and maybe a how) and seemed to me I have read quite a few where they were talking multiple fish between 4-5.5 lbs or so, so not knowing any better, just figured while not your average every day catch, not very uncommon at all.</p>

See,I am wondering about those 20-30 smallmouth days I also see now

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While I have never thought I would become as proficient or as good as they are, I do get quite stubborn and my plan was to just keep pounding the heck out of Tims and learning as much about it as possible until I started having more days then not of trips like they write about. I am "retired" (retiring young is not even close to as nice as people think ) so putting the time in on the lake is not too much of a problem for me, plus I normally fish during the week during prime fishing season so there is not nearly as much pressure as the guys who can only fish after work, weekends etc (okay, being retired does have a few advantages). Now I see I may have to downgrade my expectations a tad......I do know that if I would have caught a 5+ lb smallmouth in Ohio when I lived there, not only would it have been on my wall but I would still be telling the story about when I caught it</p>

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[Hair Jig]

mallardecho - 12/29/2011 2:52 PM Having fished Tims since 1972, 5lb sm on Tims are very rare reguardless what the guides say.

Yep..........I have seen probably 1000 smallmouth weighed in on Tim's over the last 4 years and can only remember 5 off the top of my head that were over 5 pounds. They are there but not common. Maybe I need to hire a guide................... [/QUOTE]</p>

Yep ... you need a guide. A 5# smallmouth out of Tims isn't anywhere NEAR a trophy. They must be an everyday occurrence ...... Just ask Carl Guffey. He already pointed out that I was wrong about it being a trophy fish. emoRolleyes
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[Carl Guffey]

<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">It just seems to me that anything under half of the state record weight is not a trophy. Let' see the State record is 11-15, so I would still have to say that anything under 6 is not a trophy. There are plenty places in Tennessee that fish of that weight can be caught regularly. Dale Hollow, South Holston, Ft. Loudoun, and Chickamauga just to name a few.</font>

 

[Hair Jig]

Carl Guffey - 1/7/2012 5:37 PM <font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">It just seems to me that anything under half of the state record weight is not a trophy. </font>

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I would say that it depends on the situational variables. The lake, tackle, personal goals, etc. Everyone might not be the huge fish expert that you are.
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[Carl Guffey]

<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino">Whether it is caught in a ditch or Dale Hollow a three pounder is still a three pounder. The difference is when you do something to give certain fishthe advantage to grow and be vital and then capture the result. Even then, that fish is still a good fish and not a trophy. If you set a goal to capture small fish that is all you will catch and land. Spend the time needed to learn about the prize, then go looking for only the very best. That is smallmouth fishing at it's best.</font>

 

[donberry]

I do have to say I am really surprised at the interest my fish has gotten.

 

[blazer]

I have not caught as many Smallmouth as some of the Smallmouth experts around here,but i have caught quiet a few and none of them have been over 5lbs.So when i do catch one over 5lbs it will be a trophy fish to me,i guess i have low goals when it comes to Smallmouth fishing.

 

[donberry]

blazer - me too. If I could catch a bunch of 13-14" every time out I would be happy. Those smaller ones actually seem to jump a whole lot more. Sure I'd like a few bigger ones, but I would never complain a bit. Something about watching them take to the air 4-6 times just gets my adrenaline going

 

[Hair Jig]

Carl Guffey - 1/8/2012 9:32 PM<font size="3" face="georgia,palatino"> Spend the time needed to learn about the prize, then go looking for only the very best. That is smallmouth fishing at it's best.</font>

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Now you're going to give me advice on smallmouth fishing? emoLaugh Save your time and trouble. I don't need any advice in that department. I learned from the best and have caught and targeted them for many years. Probably more years than you are old. So you can quit with the "expert" attitude. It doesn't impress me in the least. emoRolleyes </p>

Maybe if I go back and read every post you've made on here, then some day I'll be as good as you? emoLaugh
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