Who's Telling the Truth About 'roids in Baseball?

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Fishin Fool

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Has anyone watched the hearings today? If so I am curious about if you think Clemens is lying or telling the truth.
My thought from all I have hear and seen is that he is lying. I've been around this issue for over 22 years now as a trainer. It is pretty rampant now in bodybuilding, powerlifting, football and baseball. I've been anti steroid for a long time for various reasons. I've heard all of the excuses and denials, many of which Clemens is using right now. What do you guys think?
 
I guess my problem with it is that we have many other issues going on in our country that our elected politicians should be addressing instead of steroid use in Baseball. How about the economy, gas prices, war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan. There are many other things I want my congressman doing besides dealing with steroid and HGH use in Baseball and/or any other sport for that matter.
 
Guilty!!! I got to hear some of it on ESPN radio, and his x nanny threw him under the bus. Something to do with him being at some party.
 
steroids have and will always be a problem in sports of any kind in the past and future,Being in the medical field for 19 years I have seen the problems they cause long term and people still use them,I used them 30 years ago one time and will never use them again due to the side effects they cause,I think there are more important issues that need to be addressed with our country than spending the millions of dollars this is costing us now.If a player wants to use them I say it's there choice,look at all the football players that are buff and tell me they don't use them,wrestling,baseball.runners.football,prob even tennis. The gov needs to look at DUI laws and tell me why a 12 time loser is still driving around.Just my .02 worth
 
20 years ago, I cared, now I dont. Let them all do it, and it would be funner to watch. Its a game for cryin-out-loud, not the Olympics. </p>
 
Quick answer to the title of this post...NO ONE!
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He did it, his trainer said he did... his training partner (andy petite) said he did.  I'm ready for baseball to bury this, if that can happen.
 
Who cares?? I had a more elaborate post but somebody thought it was too descriptive. Its a sad day in America when this makes national news!

President beetlespin
 
beetlespin - 2/13/2008 4:24 PM

Who cares?? I had a more elaborate post but somebody thought it was too descriptive. Its a sad day in America when this makes national news!

President beetlespin

Does that make Fishheadspin Vice President, or First Spouse? emoEnforce
 
Well when you grow up watching and idolizing Mark Mcguire, Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, and others, steroids IS a big deal! Me personaly, i think anybody caught using should be banned from baseball. Pete Rose got banned for doing something that didnt even affect the record books. Bonds and others did. Do you think these guys would be where they are today if not for steroids? NOPE. Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth didnt need steroids to set these records. These guys that used roids ruined baseball, and thats whats wrong with people these days, they dont care.
 
I watched the last 2 or 3 hours of the hearings. This is what I came away with. Mcnamee didn't lie about Knoblach. He didn't lie about Pettite. Why would he lie about Clemens? He was told up front by the committee that he wasn't in danger of any jail time if he told the truth. Why would he jeopardize this by lying about Clemens? Clemens has no recollection of any conversations until someone backs him in a corner, then he suddenly remembers something about it, like "he must have heard me wrong." He wasn't at the party until the nanny remembers that he was and then he confesses that he might have dropped off his wife there? Too many contradictions by the Clemens side for me to believe any of his denials. I think that his investigators found out early on that Mcnamee didn't have a paper trail that could be traced back to Clemens and then chose the denial route. His word against a proven liar's word. It seems that he convinced some of the congressmen, but he didn't convince me.

Senator Mitchell sent a letter to all those who were on the list of the accusations that were made against them and offered them the opportunity to come down and address the accusations. Clemens denies that he ever received the letter. Who gets his mail? If he was so anxious to talk, why didn't he come to those inquiries?

I think that he is a mega baseball star who thinks that he can persuade baseball fans of his innocence by constant denials. I think that he is lying.
 
drumking - 2/13/2008 7:10 PM

I watched the last 2 or 3 hours of the hearings. This is what I came away with. Mcnamee didn't lie about Knoblach. He didn't lie about Pettite. Why would he lie about Clemens? He was told up front by the committee that he wasn't in danger of any jail time if he told the truth. Why would he jeopardize this by lying about Clemens? Clemens has no recollection of any conversations until someone backs him in a corner, then he suddenly remembers something about it, like "he must have heard me wrong." He wasn't at the party until the nanny remembers that he was and then he confesses that he might have dropped off his wife there? Too many contradictions by the Clemens side for me to believe any of his denials. I think that his investigators found out early on that Mcnamee didn't have a paper trail that could be traced back to Clemens and then chose the denial route. His word against a proven liar's word. It seems that he convinced some of the congressmen, but he didn't convince me.

Senator Mitchell sent a letter to all those who were on the list of the accusations that were made against them and offered them the opportunity to come down and address the accusations. Clemens denies that he ever received the letter. Who gets his mail? If he was so anxious to talk, why didn't he come to those inquiries?

I think that he is a mega baseball star who thinks that he can persuade baseball fans of his innocence by constant denials. I think that he is lying.


All very good points. McNamee has everything to lose in this one. I will also point out something that may have escaped a lot of people. The two "knots" that he had in his glutes that were MRI'd were the result of using Winstrol V. Winstrol is a water based steriod that tends to pool in fatty tissue. I have seen person after person have what we call "rot out" due to injections with a dirty needle or incorrectly given injections. It tends to start as a small hard mass in the glute, getting larger and larger each day. Eventually in a lot of cases, it will "open" to the surface in a large, deep sore, that can sometimes threaten life. Clemens claims the knots he went to have MRI'd were from B-12 injections. A B-12 injection is much shallower and in all the time I have seen them given, never caused an abcess. To me this, and the fact that his wife admitted to using HGH was a smoking gun. Sad. Like Drumking I think this is one of those things where someone thinks they are above any law, even when sworn to tell the truth.

Should they be having hearings? I am up in the air on this one. Maybe some good will come out of it. I do think SOMEONE somewhere should hold these folks to account. They are looked up to by millions, including a lot of kids. But as an earlier, on the money post said, most people just don't care anymore about much of anything. If you saw the number of promising young people that follow in the footsteps of people like Clemens you'd understand my concern. This stuff is epidemic and sports stars using only makes it "ok" in the minds of a lot of kids. Sure I know it is used in a lot of sports but does that make it ok? If tomorrow doing cocaine became the new trend for an "energy boost" would it be ok? Lots of teenage girls are using meth as a way to lose weight. Is that ok? Where do you draw the line on life threatning or altering drugs?
 
Its all a shame..the money they make, the dope they do...exactly why I wont watch pro stuff. Makes me sick!</p>

I'm going to the polls and adding Beetlespin to my ballot this year. He'll fix it all! </p>
 
He did it, now he needs to admit it and go hide (actually go spend some time in government housing, free room and board). As someone said above, there are just a few other issues in this country and world right now that seem just a bit more important to me (i.e., Iraq, electing a new president with at least half a brain, struggling economy, etc).

But, I am with you Spur, I've been saying it the last few years - let all the pro athletes do HGH, roids, speed, whatever it takes baby!

Baseball - pitchers throwing 120 mph, home runs flying 800 feet, bring it on!

Football - 6'-8" quarterbacks that weigh 285 and can throw the ball 100 yards flat footed, 6'-6" running backs that weigh 340 and run a 4.2 second 40-yard dash, and the linemen averaging 450 pounds, can squat 1500 pounds and bench press 1000 pounds - kind of like that robot football dude on Fox network!

Golf - 500 yard drives, 250 yard pitching wedges, 1000 yard holes - move aside Tiger!

Basketball and Hockey - well, nobody really cares anyway...
 
Beetlespin for President!

There was a lot of truth to Dropshot's post though. It's a damn shame that we're putting SPORTS headlines down for NATIONAL headlines over something so stupid. They ALL shot that crap and MLB knew it ... AND PROVIDED IT. The commisioner looked the other way, the friggin union encouraged it, the 'fans' ate it up, and the media fueled the fire. I like Rocket - wait .... I LIKED Rocket - right up until he lied. If he'd have just said, "Yep. I shot it ... we ALL shot it," there would at least be some measure of respect. MLB spun this web ... let them unspin it and save the noteworthy news for news that is noteworthy.

Besides ... 'Bama inked the #1 recruiting class in the nation and I'm just amped for college football to kick off again! emoLaugh
 
I don't care one way or the other if any of them are guilty or not but one thing I saw on the news this afternoon was the trainer said he had used hypodermic needles, and cotton swabs with Clemens dna on them, question: Why did the trainer save this garbage from years back to now bring it up to public attention, why wasn't this stuff thrown in the garbage like all hypos and cotton balls? Sounds to me that the trainer was trying to blackmail Clemens or someone was paying him to dig up dirt.
 
Doc1 - 2/13/2008 9:10 PM I don't care one way or the other if any of them are guilty or not but one thing I saw on the news this afternoon was the trainer said he had used hypodermic needles, and cotton swabs with Clemens dna on them, question: Why did the trainer save this garbage from years back to now bring it up to public attention, why wasn't this stuff thrown in the garbage like all hypos and cotton balls? Sounds to me that the trainer was trying to blackmail Clemens or someone was paying him to dig up dirt.
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<font size="5">BINGO!!!!!! It all comes down to moey in the pocket for somebody, legal or illegal. </font></p>
 
anybody ever read canseco's book 'juiced' ? i did, i liked it. i grew up watching baseball when canseco and mcgwire were the bash brothers at oakland, when ryan sandberg was the highest paid player in baseball with the cubs. then the strike of 94 hit and i've never watched an entire game on tv since. i've been to a few, but more for the atmosphere than for the game.

canseco said when he got into the game, he was the only one he knew of using roids. he got mcgwire into it and by the time he left (or was ousted) canseco estimated that 70% of all players were using them. some to get big like himself, giambi, bonds, mcgwire, sosa, and some to just stay in good shape for the entire season and heal faster. by the time he left the game, he said guys weren't hiding it anymore. it was done openly in the locker rooms, with someone collecting all the used needles and going to find a mcdonald's dumpster somewhere.

his reasoning that baseball let it go on for so long before doing anything about it was simple. they needed money. since the strike of 94 baseball lost fans. lost fans meant lost revenues, and baseball needed butts in seats, especially for what the players are getting paid nowadays. so how do you bring something fun and exciting back into the sport? a home run race for the record books. mcgwire, sosa, bonds, got people interested again, get butts back in seats and get more money.

i say all pro athletes need to all line up and pee in a cup. anyone cheating is banned forever. or just ban pro sports in general, i wouldn't really care.

i have read that the largest demographic using roids now is high school kids (could be wrong, FF would know better than me), trying to make it to the big college programs, then to try to make it to the pros. it's a shame that raw, God given talent combined with hard work and good coaching isn't enough anymore, it has to be supplemented by illegal substance abuse.

that turned out longer than i anticipated. sorry. but i am with the main point here, why is this national news? working on stopping the decline of the dollar is much more important than stopping a few rich athletes from injecting themselves with needles. but there needs to be a way to educate kids on the dangers of this stuff, and its not worth what it will do to you in the long run.
 
BBass - 2/13/2008 8:21 PM



Its all a shame..the money they make, the dope they do...exactly why I wont watch pro stuff. Makes me sick!</p>

I'm going to the polls and adding Beetlespin to my ballet this year. He'll fix it all! </p>

Hey Billy if you are going to have a ballet with BS in it how about posting the video. I bet you guys would be cute in a pink tutu.emoBigsmile
 
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