Yeah I know but which picture above is the meanmouth? Again I have never caugth a smallmouth looking fish with a tonge patch at the Riverpark just the one noted above at Racoon Mtn. Bbass did catch a largemouth looks bass with a tounge patch a few months ago. It was a about 3.5 bls and had a very small mouth like a spot.
Chickamauga Dam Smallmouth & Spots 11-22-2006
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Yeah I know but which picture above is the meanmouth? Again I have never caugth a smallmouth looking fish with a tonge patch at the Riverpark just the one noted above at Racoon Mtn. Bbass did catch a largemouth looks bass with a tounge patch a few months ago. It was a about 3.5 bls and had a very small mouth like a spot.
rsimms
Well-known member
Sorry beetlespin... I beg to differ. Spend some time Googling and you can find MULTIPLE reliable sources which indicate smallmouth do have a tooth patch. Here's a Link to couple, including one Power Point presentation from Iowa State University:
http://www.nrem.iastate.edu/class/assets/aecl361/AECL361(01)/06_Speciessunfishes.ppt (strange link breaks, you'll have to cut & paste it)
http://outdooralabama.com/outdoor-alabama/spots.pdf (see Page 6)
Therefore a tooth patch cannot be the determining factor. And even the reliable biological references indicate that there is no such thing as "always or never." In other words, some smallmouth and spots might NOT have a tooth patch, and even some largemouths might have a tooth patch.
The only way to make a true determination of a "meanmouth" is via DNA analysis. Chances are the only time that will ever happen is if a "record" is at stake. Some states apparently have established a special "hybrid black bass" record category. See: http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/blackbasshybrid.htm
beetlespin
Well-known member
rsimms,
you had to make this complicated didnt you
you had to make this complicated didnt you
rsimms
Well-known member
Just trying to keep the disinformation to a minimum. emoPoke emoBigsmile I can tell you from discussions with them, biologists HATE dealing with hybrids of any species. It's a very inexact science... about the time you think you've figured it out, Mother Nature throws a curve ball.beetlespin - 11/28/2006 3:33 PM
rsimms,
you had to make this complicated didnt you
BigFishGuide
Well-known member
When I caught what I thought was the new state record spotted bass of 5lbs. 12oz. TWRA sent the fish off to be DNA tested that is the only true way to identify any species of bass. The fish that I caught had 2 chrom. LM and 2 chrom from the Spotted bass. The fish looked like a spot, tooth patch, lower jaw aligned with mid to front of eye, top dorsal fin no gap, markings, lateral lines and color the whole 9 yards I was already celebrating when I sent the fish off only to be sorely dissappointed later and having to tell everyone that the fish was a hybrid. I've caught several fish this year that looked like a smallmouth but looked like a spot I was not sure matter of fact look at the photo attached and tell me what yall think about this fish I could not tell. Had the tooth patch???? Fish on top Questionable Fish on bottom no doubt about it Def. a Spotted bass.
Attachments
whenwegoin
Well-known member
This is what I am getting at. I think there is a possibility to have a smallmouth with a patch or a smallmouth without a patch. You can't say it there is a patch then it MUST be a spot. As a matter of fact, I think I have seen largemouth with a similar patch, but it is uncommon.
FA caught what I believe to be a "Meanmouth" last week. Looked alot like a smallmouth but had a tongue patch. I caught what looked like a spot last winter but had no tongue patch. I believe that fish was a Largemouth/spot cross. Tim Churchhill told me it was possible and if I caught another one like that to send it in for DNA testing. Apparently the LM/spot hybrid is not so common.</p>
All this interspecies breeding offends my sensibilities!!! Where is it all going to end???</p>
All this interspecies breeding offends my sensibilities!!! Where is it all going to end???</p>
Carl Guffey
Well-known member
MB, with spawning areas disappearing and spot numbers growing, it is only going to get worse. Genetically, Tennessee River Watershed smallmouth do not have tougue patches, unless there is a spot in the wood pile somewhere. If you guys would, while there is an interest in smallie's below the dams. Take a couple with patches and send them down to be tested.
I have this personally from Bill Reeves, head of fisheries for the State of Tennessee, if it is a black bass with a tougue patch, it will be considered a hybrid and is a spot.
I have this personally from Bill Reeves, head of fisheries for the State of Tennessee, if it is a black bass with a tougue patch, it will be considered a hybrid and is a spot.
Fishin Fool
Well-known member
The next time I snag a meanmouth I'll send it to be tested. How do you go about doing that? Do you just contact TWRA or what? By the way, the two meanmouths I caught could in no way in my mind be confused with a largemouth or a smallmouth. The coloring on both fish was clearly something totally different from what I have caught the last few decades.
polo-dog
Well-known member
BFG, what makes you think that the top fish is something other than a smallie? It looks like a smallie to me. I think that it isn't fair that your fish was disqualified. It was a spotted bass on the outside and the record was taken before DNA analysis was used. It may have been and probably was a hybrid. That's just not fair.
hooker771
Well-known member
Just wondering judging by your outfit it appears you caught both on the same day. Which leads me to believe that we are splitting hairs here, either way it looks like a great day.
ALthough a state record would have been a wonderful dayemoBang emoParty emoPoke emoWorthy emoSorry emoBawl
ALthough a state record would have been a wonderful dayemoBang emoParty emoPoke emoWorthy emoSorry emoBawl
BigFishGuide
Well-known member
Polo,
The color of the fish was a grey not brown and the fish had the modeling colors or markings around the head like a smallmouth. The fish had a tooth patch so I'm not sure what species of fish that it was from.
The color of the fish was a grey not brown and the fish had the modeling colors or markings around the head like a smallmouth. The fish had a tooth patch so I'm not sure what species of fish that it was from.
Take a couple with patches and send them down to be tested. I have this personally from <font color="#cc0066">Bill Reeves, head of fisheries for the State of Tennessee</font>, if it is a black bass with a tougue patch, it will be considered a hybrid and is a spot.[/QUOTE]</p>
The implication of this statement is that a hybrid black bass with a tongue patch is considered a spot so there is NO SIZE LIMIT! Please harvest them!!</p>
The implication of this statement is that a hybrid black bass with a tongue patch is considered a spot so there is NO SIZE LIMIT! Please harvest them!!</p>
whenwegoin
Well-known member
Well, I guess I caught my personal best SPOT of over 4 lbs then. Who says they don't get very big below the dam????? The harvest should stop immediately and we should wait a few more years for about 1000 more of them get around the 4 lb class like that one.
Carl Guffey
Well-known member
FF, contact Mike Jollie, region 3, MB has his number and he can fill you in on the procedure....
Buoy-Master
Well-known member
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</p>
Putting in a quote for TWRA on a trailer. Uh, they don't know either. Seems they have an idea that looking deep into the genetics maybe in the very near future. I aslo may have an oppurtunity to ride on the Dec shocking! </p>
Fshnman
Member
Guys, I hate to throw a "monkey wrench" into this whole thing; but David Etnier, THE #1 fish biologist in our state who wrote the book FISHES OF TENNESSEE, states that: "a small, round patch of teeth is typically present on the tongue in smallmouth specimens from our area". He goes on to state: "spotted bass have a tongue with a black rectangular tooth patch and teeth are absent from the tongue of largemouth bass". Looks like DNA testing is going to be the way of the future on these questionable specimens. emoScratch
Carl Guffey
Well-known member
let me rephrase: a tougue patch, raised rough area with an underlying, dark, olive to light brown discoloration or spot. Must have discoloration along with rough area.emoSorry
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