Clarification on not allowing guides to fish frostbite tournament.

[billyc]

There has been all kinds of talk lately on so called reasons for not allowing guides to fish frostbite tournament this year. The sole reason for not allowing guides to fish frostbite tournament is because on several occasions in the past two years guides were advertising and guiding their clients in the frostbite tournament. They were also using our tournament to promote their businesses. This didn't really seem like a problem at first but after multiple times their clients were winning we started having a ton of complaints from other people fishing the tournament on the ethics of being guided in tournament fishing against others with no guide. We started having people show up to fish only to ask to have their money back or turn and walk off due to this occurring. On behalf of Gary and myself we have no personal problem with any guides on chickamauga. This only became a problematic situation when various guides used frostbite tournament in their business ventures. I myself don't have a problem with guides fishing even two guides fishing together which has happened on multiple occasions in various tournaments. It's the average Joe folks who have really complained about it and work all week and come out to compete in a low cost event . This is the sole reason for this rule it's not because people running the event are terrified to fish against guides on chickamauga, but when running a tournament you have to consider everyone who is fishing and not just a few.

 

[FishingwithRusty]

having been on the receiving of these kinds of bans i can say, it sucks! while i was guiding in the carolinas there were tournaments that implemented rules to prohibit guides (i was really the only one on the lake actively guiding) from fishing. i was just another guy that LOVES to fish that had made the decision(leap of faith) to try and make a living sharing my knowledge and passion for fishing, it was particularly painful when some of these organizers that were banning me were so called friends.

while i will say that being on the water all the time did help my knowledge of what the fish were doing it RARELY helped my tournament performance as i was putting my clients on most of those fish, so they were burned by the weekend.

although ive helped folks prepare for tournaments and guided them when their rules allowed, i never had someone pay me my guide fee to go fish a tournament with me. that part seems a bit odd to me.

ive met most of the local guides and from what ive seen and can tell for the most part they are good folks and obviously love the sport. maybe there can be some compromise about them fishing/guiding during the tournaments.

as for the crybabies complaining about guides fishing tournaments...................WHY ARE YOU THERE? to compete.....oh but you only want to compete against folks you think you can beat well keep your a$$ at home then. those are the folks that should be getting banned! if youre not trying to improve your game then tournament fishing isnt for you, maybe you should take up knitting or something.

clearly this is a sensitive subject to me as ive been on the receiving end of all the talk and accusations that come with some success tournament fishing and guiding(clearly not around here as i still struggle at times on this lake, lol) but the thing to remember is that these guys youre excluding........theyre just like most of us, they LOVE to fish, so much so theyre trying to make a living doing it and to have youre fellow fishermen shun you for it SUCKS!!!!!!

 

[fishnboy]

I don't think it's fair to say "we are we there" We are there to have fun. And yes compete. I haven't fished any of these in a few years and just heard about this going on recently. But when I fished them we NEVER had a problem with guided or pros for that matter but come on to think its a good idea to do it both at the same time is the problem. I see the point. Why can't people just fish to have fun compete. So they have made uo their mind. So this is fair to say "Don't like the ride DONT buy the ticket"

 

[rippinlips2win]

why are people stuck on who is fishing a tournament? Is it not the little finned creature with a pea sized brain that we are truly competing against? Let em fish...they can only weigh in the same number that you can...whether it is 5 or 3 in that specific tourney.

 

[rippinlips2win]

Looking at the fact they had 5 boats last tourney, seems they would want all they can get to participate...

 

[FishingwithRusty]

i dont pay an entry fee to go "fun" fishing

 

[rippinlips2win]

FWR...if you decide to start paying entry fees to fun fish then send it to me...

 

[billyc]

Rusty no one is trying to shun the guides and I'm all for stiff competition it makes you a better angler. I'll pose this question for everyone . If a guide shows up with a client who is paying him 300.00 to 400.00 for the day and the client pays the entry fee for the tournament which this is not a bass event 30 or 40 bucks. Then the guide and his client win the tournament and take the first place money from the tournament and this happens on a consistent basis. What would your explanation to the fellow competitors be. And I will say this this may seem ok to everybody and didn't really seem like a big deal until the paying client wins and then everyone that thought it was cool just another boat in the field suddenly doesn't see it that way and then the bitching starts. If the guides could just fish by themselves or with another guide or even a loved one or friend this would have been a big deal but how do you know who's is a buddy or a paying customer so to speak? And as far as only having five boats Saturday it was because we urged everyone to fish the benefit tournament for Tracy Hardin on Friday instead of ours because it was for a far better cause.

 

[FishingwithRusty]

Like I said, the part of the guide getting his fee paid to go fish a tournament with the client seems odd to me.

On the other side of the argument, does it really matter who's in the boat with the guide or what their arrangement is? They pay the entry like everyone else.

Like I said it's the crybabies that are causing the problem, they should be the ones getting banned.

 

[derek81]

You do realize the guide fishing with a customer is probably more handicapped than if he just fished by himself or with a buddy. I don't care either way and never have but I would think they are at a disadvantage

 

[WaterChap]

So, it does make sense to me to restrict tournaments to certain levels of competitors. I get that someone who is a guide on the lake the tournament is occurring or who is fishing at a certain tour level might really change the chances of the weekend warriors. That being said, it make no sense at all to me to let a guide fish only if they are not fishing with a client. A guide is a guide, if they are fishing on their own lake. All that being said, I don’t mind fishing against guides or pros because I learn more and I’m not winning against the weekenders either!

 

[rsimms]

I'm a guide but I personally do NOT guide for largemouth. I leave that to a couple of my partners. So, I personally do not have a dog in this particular hunt.

That said, I understand why folks would feel seriously disadvantaged fishing against someone who is on the water three, four or five days a week. I personally would bear no ill will toward tournament organizers who choose to forbid participation of guides (at least those fishing on their home lake, with a client or without). That said, I dare say there are at least a few - maybe more than a few - non-guides who hit the water just as often, especially just prior to a major tournament.

So perhaps there should be consideration to simply declaring the lake "off-limits" to all participants for five days prior to the tournament. Why should anyone - guide or not- be allowed to hit the lake multiple days immediately prior to a tournament when there are others who cannot?

Such a rule would eliminate guides - unless they choose to give up a LOT of money guiding that week. And it would truly level the playing field for everyone by preventing those folks who have the freedom to "practice" four straight days before a tournament.

Sure, enforcement may have to be on the "honor system." But we all know how many eyeballs there are on the lake and at the ramp, and generally I believe the overwhelming majority of folks are honorable anyway.

Perhaps this is an avenue that would actually be more fair for everyone? Food for thought.

 

[Dropshot]

rsimms - 12/2/2021 11:54 AM I'm a guide but I personally do NOT guide for largemouth. I leave that to a couple of my partners. So, I personally do not have a dog in this particular hunt. That said, I understand why folks would feel seriously disadvantaged fishing against someone who is on the water three, four or five days a week. I personally would bear no ill will toward tournament organizers who choose to forbid participation of guides (at least those fishing on their home lake, with a client or without). That said, I dare say there are at least a few - maybe more than a few - non-guides who hit the water just as often, especially just prior to a major tournament. So perhaps there should be consideration to simply declaring the lake "off-limits" to all participants for five days prior to the tournament. Why should anyone - guide or not- be allowed to hit the lake multiple days immediately prior to a tournament when there are others who cannot? Such a rule would eliminate guides - unless they choose to give up a LOT of money guiding that week. And it would truly level the playing field for everyone by preventing those folks who have the freedom to "practice" four straight days before a tournament. Sure, enforcement may have to be on the "honor system." But we all know how many eyeballs there are on the lake and at the ramp, and generally I believe the overwhelming majority of folks are honorable anyway. Perhaps this is an avenue that would actually be more fair for everyone? Food for thought.

</p>

Great comments Richard. It really seemed to help level the playing field when I started in Mid-South because we had an off-limits period before tournaments. I think it was 48 hours prior to a regular season tournament and a week prior to the classic. While at the end of the day the better angler normally would win, it did seem to help even things out.</p>

 

[churly]

Were talking about a small dog fight that rarely gathers more than 10 boats, keep this in mind.

 

[FishingwithRusty]

the biggest bunch of BS in my opinion, if it matters enough to the individual, they will make time, take vacation do whatever to prepare. limiting those who are willing to make the effort to appease those that are not is sad, just go ahead and give everyone a "participation trophy" for showing up on tournament day. plus putting your home lake off limits for a dogfight is absurd. once again its catering to the crybabies or the ones who arent willing to make the effort and then they get beat by those who do and spend their time on the water, its competition aka a TOURNAMENT!

 

[fischnrod]

Don't tell anybody what lake it's on until the evening before the tournament. That's the way it used to be on the Bassmaster circuit

 

[bricknbass]

Wounder why that's is !?!

 

[bricknbass]

churly - 12/9/2021 10:42 AM

Were talking about a small dog fight that rarely gathers more than 10 boats, keep this in mind.

wonder why!?!

 

[FlippinManiac]

Not sure why the recent “heat”, but this is a well ran and great tournament. This year’s attendance has been off so far, but I’ve fished this dogfight many times in the past and it usually runs 12-20 boats. For anyone looking for a relaxed fun tournament during the winter, this is it.

 

[screwball]

That is the best answer to the problem I have heard. Then everyone starts on a even playing field.