Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLunker

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Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

More learning opportunity today…

Plenty of information about oxygen enrichment and oxygen enriched [oxygen-rich] atmospheres and fire safety as when applied to bass boat livewells available 24/7/365 on the net. Only 1-2 clicks away for everyone.

First and foremost, it is essential that you have a crystal clear definition and solid understanding of what “oxygen enrichment [oxygen-rich] atmosphere, oxygen enriched livewell” really means.

To acquire that knowledge and understanding…
Here’s a few phrases to Google:

“oxygen enrichment”

“oxygen enrichment,fire safety”

“livewell oxygen enrichment,fire safety”

“livewell oxygen systems,fire safety”

Most people that deal with oxygen enriched atmospheres have had some formal training about fire safety with oxygen enriched [oxygen-rich] atmospheres/environments. If you have no training or knowledge about fire safety with oxygen enriched atmospheres and use these environments with no knowledge or training, well, that may be hazardous to your property and health if you create an oxygen enriched atmosphere in you bass boat livewell or anywhere else and you know nothing about fire safety. Most fishermen can surely learn about oxygen enrichment atmospheres in boat livewells and fire safety you want too.

After you have the basic knowledge and understanding of fire safety in oxygen enriched environments (bass boat livewells) then you can ask any bass boat salesmen or product salesman intelligent scientific based questions about fire safety in oxygen enriched bass boat livewells or bait tanks and you should expect factual scientific answers.

Pivots are real red-flags. Oxygen enriched livewell fire safety is very important and you need accurate straight answers to your questions about any products that claim they will produce an oxygen enriched [oxygen-rich] livewell environments on your bass boat.

It’s very easy then to separate the grain from the chaff because you will already know many facts about oxygen enrichment fire safety as applied to any bass boat livewell.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Tony,

Yes, the V-T2 creates a continuous flow of atmospheric air in and out of the livewell. This atmospheric air contains oxygen which diffuses into the livewell water. This is by atmospheric diffusion. Yes, when you run your boat up on pad the delivery of oxygen is greater and the disruption of the water it creates causes the oxygen to diffuse faster. An example, would be like adding sugar to your coffee. We all stir it to dissolve it more quickly. But don't be mistaken, the V-T2 creates an continuous air flow whether running the boat or anchored on a spot not moving at all.

If you want to purchase oxygen bottles to boost your livewell water oxygen levels then go right ahead. But don't by into the ludicrous statements like "air is not oxygen" and that our atmospheric air is and inefficient resource of oxygen. It is how you and I are alive and every living thing that breathes on this planet is supported by an oxygen level of 20.9 percent in our atmosphere. In fact, if the oxygen level of our atmosphere were to increase by just 1 percent then it would ignite and the whole planet would burn up. So, this 20.9 percent is a perfect balance and a perfect environment for life on our planet. Now, water and our lakes are a lower solubility world. 5ppm is a safe level for most fish. Our atmosphere at 20.9% contains 210,000ppm. All the natural lakes and man-made lakes get most of their oxygen from the atmosphere. This is why the Corp of Engineers never had to build oxygen producing plants at any of our lakes. Yes, lakes get a boost from photosynthesis during the day, but at night plants go through a process called respiration and use oxygen. The main source is atmospheric air.

Now, when we run our aerators on timers and let the CO2 build up in the livewell which is a larger molecule it displaces oxygen molecules and it becomes harder to keep the livewell environment at 100% dissolved oxygen. Running the standard aerator more and continuously air-stripping the CO2 out will yield much better oxygen levels in the livewell. This is the reason anglers love the V-T2 so much. It removes CO2 and allows more oxygen-rich atmospheric to constantly be flowing through the livewell to help when they need to save on battery power and not run the aerator so much.

If you decide to purchase the pure oxygen system you are describing, make sure it does not super-saturate the dissolved oxygen levels beyond 100% saturation. Remember it is like the song, "Love is like oxygen, you get too much you get to high, not enough and your going to die".. Actually, fish will get a condition called gas bubble disease and they will die from it. I would also highly recommend getting the V-T2 because of how it allows the natural processes to be a work in your livewell, and it will strip out this over saturation of oxygen to keep your fish in a safer and more natural environment.

Good luck with your pure oxygen bottles!
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

J - Another great learning opportunity today regarding oxygen-rich [oxygen enriched] atmospheres and fire safety. Don’t you just love learning new stuff?
Linde Corp
Safety Advice –
Oxygen Enrichment - 4 pg. 1 - http://www.linde-gas.nl/internet.lg.lg.ndl/nl/images/Oxygen enrichment172_72933.pdf?v=.
This Safety Advice provide recommendations based on practical experience of conditions that can lead to an oxygen enriched atmosphere. It does not replace mandatory regulations but are meant to complement them.
Hazards of Oxygen enrichment
Oxygen enrichment of the atmosphere, even by a few per cent, will considerably increase the risk of fire. Materials which will not burn in air (21% oxygen), may burn vigorously or even spontaneously in an atmosphere where the oxygen content in increased. This may include fireproofing materials.
In an oxygen enriched atmosphere any flame will burn much hotter and will propagate at a greater speed. The ignition, flame speed, violence and extent of this reaction will depend on:
The concentration, temperature and pressure of the reacting substance.
And there’s much more…
By the way, you may have missed this so I’ll post it again for you… about oxygen enriched livewell and those oxygen tanks you just mentioned.
Please pay very close attention to the last 2 paragraphs here.
A professional opinion from expert fishery biologist:
Not discounting any fisherman testimonials or salesman opinions, I ask a real expert fishery biologist looking for real facts, actually I contacted the big boss-man at the ShareLunker Bass Program in Texas about the efficacy of using livewell air vents and depending on livewell air vents and plain old air to insure minimal safe oxygenation during live bass transports… the ShareLunker Bass Program usually transports only one (1) big mature bass (minimal biomass 13 lbs.) hundreds of miles across Texas in their live haul tanks, not 2,3 or 5 5-10 lb. mature fish transported 7-8 hours in weekend bass tournament in a small aerated bass boat livewell.
If you like, review livewell air vents vs. using 100% compressed oxygen administration and discover their professional opinion and daily practices that always insures transport water quality (specifically minimal safe dissolved oxygen saturation) for transporting 1 bass hundreds of miles for many hours. These fishery biologist are the real expert live bass transporters; there’s no shucking and jiving here because they transport live bass every day for a living. If their bass dies during transport, they lose their job. They know about minimal dissolved oxygen requirements and how to insure the livewell water quality that’s necessary to transport and keep live bass safely and healthy all day across the Great State of Texas.
My original email inquiry sent to:
Kyle Brookshear [email protected]
Subject: Transporting bass-water quality-safe DO saturation with livewell vents - opinion
Kyle Brookshear, ShareLunker Program Coordinator
Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center
5550 FM 2495, Athens TX 75752
[email protected]
Office: (903) 670-2285
I wanted to talk with the expert live bass transporters and figure you folks are the best live bass transporters in Texas. I would appreciate your expert opinion please.
My concern is, will 2 commercial air vents insure safe oxygenation for all my fish in transport. Will 2 air vents eliminate the CO2 and ammonia produced by the fish? Do your biologist use this type air vents for oxygenation when you transport 1 or more Lunker bass across Texas?
I will transporting live mature wild black bass. These bass will be in the haul tank with a closed lid, a livewell. The lid will have 2 air vents for aeration/oxygenation. Stocking density will be 1 lb. fish/1 gal water. haul tank water temp will be 80’sF, tank water volume 30 gal, biomass of black bass 30 lbs. I will add salt to the haul water or a livewell water conditioning product commonly used in bass tournaments.
Total time of captivity trip will be 7-8 hours, travel time 6 hrs, time stopped 2 hrs.
Hauling water will be environmental water, no water temperature change.
I was advised to use this V2-T livewell ventilation system http://www.newproproducts.com/products.html . I was advised that these air vent are a very inexpensive method for providing a continuous flow of oxygen and insure safe oxygenation for my bass. Seems to be an easy, cheap way to insure safe oxygenation, no air pumps, batteries, spray bars, aerators.
___________________________________________________________________________

Mr. Brookshear’s response:
Thank you for your interest in ensuring healthy transport of Largemouth Bass. While I have only been at TFFC for a few months Tony Owens, our Hatchery Manager, who I have copied to this email, can provided you with the best possible answer to your question. Tony has extensive knowledge of proper fish care, treatment, and hauling Largemouth Bass ranging in all sizes, various quantities and distances. So, he will be able to best answer your questions.

Mr. Owen’s response:
Tony Owens
NRS V – Hatchery Manager
Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center
[email protected]
Office # 903-670-2236

I am responding to your email sent to Kyle Brookshear about Largemouth Bass transport.
We do not use the air vent method you described.

To insure your Largemouth Bass arrive healthy and alive, I would suggest getting a cylinder of compressed oxygen, an oxygen regulator, oxygen hose and a micro-bubble oxygen diffuser and put that in your transport tank.

Sorry, but I just had to laugh out loud at your acrimonious closing sentence, "Good Luck with your pure oxygen bottles."

J, There is no luck to it, this is applied pure fishery science. This is how fishery biologist insure excellent livewell water quality all day when they transport large "Lunker Bass" hundreds of miles across Texas. The fishery biologist DO NOT recommend nor use your livewell air vents to insure an oxygen-rich atmosphere in their hauling tanks. Period, They use those compressed oxygen bottles that welders use, many use Victor adjustable oxygen regulators too.

Please ask Mr. Gene Gilliland to post his professional opinion regarding using your air vents to insure an oxygen-rich livewell atmosphere in the summer and especially his professional opinion about fire safety in oxygen-rich [oxygen enriched] atmospheres in bass boat livewells and please, post it on this forum for all to see. Better yet, ask him to post his opinions about this it on this forum. I would love to see his professional opinion on this matter, he's a well known, well respected fishery biologist... Conservation Director, B.A.S.S.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

J- Hey-Hey... Here's another learning opportunity today right here, right now… Look.

Another 5 minute Google search, I found more of the same sort of shucking and jiving, advertisement hype.

Found another livewell/baitwell air device that also insures more “dependable oxygen-rich air” for your livewells/baitwells. But this little livewell air device comes with a little electric air pump and 2 tiny air rocks.

Nothing against the manufacture his air device, but let’s really take a closer , real scientific look at the website advertisement and the device that produces “oxygen rich air.”
This is basically another example of the same kind of “oxygen-rich atmospheric air” dance party.

Another “oxygen-enriching air device” with no published scientific testing and documentation available that validates oxygen enrichment available for review, no fire safety warnings/instructions available either.

Check out this air device:

T-H Marine Products http://thmarine.com/pro-air-system.html

T-H Marine advertises their Pro-Air livewell system on their website… “long lasting dependable oxygen-rich air source for your livewell or baitwell.” Now that sounds really great and the device is cheap (inexpensive). The magic advertising words… “dependable oxygen rich air.” Do these buzz-words sound familiar?

The Pro-Air™ System air pump has advanced design features that are engineered under rigid quality control conditions to insure long lasting dependable oxygen-rich air source to your livewell or baitwell.”

1st advertising Bullet Point - Provides Long Lasting Oxygen Rich Air…
Really? I bet T-H Marine cannot/will not produce any 3rd party scientific testing that validates their advertising claim that the Pro-Air Livewell System can/will produce any oxygen-rich air [oxygen enriched air] inside any livewell or baitwell.

Now this product advertisement, “long lasting dependable oxygen-rich air source for your livewell or baitwell.” sounds familiar in this thread and I bet it catches many fishermen that have no idea what oxygen rich really means. And, I also bet that many fishermen have no idea about oxygen enriched atmospheres and importance of fire safety with this product because fire safety with oxygen rich air is not found on this website. Fire safety is out of site-out of mind.

Don’t you just love that Google Search Engine? I do, and learning about these livewell oxygen enrichment atmospheric air devices is so easy and so much fun… all that knowledge and scientific information is only 1-2 clicks away. Now that’s cool!

Maybe a T-H Marine sales rep would join us on this forum thread discussion and help us understand their Pro Air Livewell “oxygen enrichment” System.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

J – You surprised me when you exposed your lack of scientific knowledge about air and oxygen in this one 12 word sentence on this forum today, “But don't by into the ludicrous statements like "air is not oxygen"…” REALLY?

J is serious, she is not kidding around. She really believes this and she does not know nor understand the scientific difference between atmospheric air at sea level and the gaseous elemental oxygen (O2) at sea level.

J, You claim that you like new learning opportunities, so, let’s have a new scientific learning experience about air and elemental oxygen (O2 gas).

It would be so beneficial for you to really understand the difference between atmospheric air, Oxygen (O2) and oxygen-rich atmospheric air. Just saying the correct scientific words could triple air vent sales if you understood the serious physiological limitations of atmospheric air and what oxygen-enrichment means in reference to insuring minimal safe oxygenation for live fish transport.

Actually the mixture of several gases that compose atmospheric air is very different than the gaseous elemental oxygen or O2. Salesmen love to call air oxygen and oxygen air, besides, who’s going know the difference without and oxygen meter and who knows how to use an oxygen meter anyway… so shucking and jiving is really common salesmanship in the livewell air device sales.

Air is a simple mixture of different gases and water vapor at sea level.

Air - By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen,[1] 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere.

Oxygen - By mass, oxygen is the third-most abundant element in the universe, after hydrogen and helium.[4] At standard temperature and pressure, two atoms of the element bind to form dioxygen, a colorless and odorless diatomic gas with the formula O2.

Now, do you understand the difference between air and elemental gaseous oxygen (O2 gas)?

If you don’t understand the difference between air and oxygen (O2) yet, I explain the difference to you another simpler way that may be easier for you to understand.
I’ll go slower this time - Elemental gaseous oxygen (O2 gas) is used every day in hospitals and medical clinics and on the football field sidelines. Air is administered with an A/C electric fan. Some patients would quickly die breathing atmospheric air containing mostly nitrogen and a tiny bit of oxygen, they must have oxygen (O2 gas) immediately and continuously to survive. Do you understand the difference between atmospheric air and oxygen (O2 gas) now? Surely you have seen patients breathing oxygen with an oxygen mask in hospitals and on the football fields.

You’re welcome, glad to help you.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

The thread is HOT and today presents another learning opportunity for J, myself and other interested fishermen to learn… so let’s learn more stuff.

I found that T H Marine Products advertising another livewell product and yes, another “livewell oxygen– enrichment claim” too.

The Oxygenator device advertisement claims to “create an oxygen-rich environment.” Sounds just like the advertising claim we have been reviewing in this thread.
But again, I found no oxygen enrichment fire warnings, absolutely nothing addressing fire safety on this website. Clearly this livewell Oxygenator product claims to “create an oxygen-rich environment” in a boat livewell, but this dealer also as little to no regard for the possibility of an oxygen-rich fire hazard on boats using this product. Is that sad or is that irresponsible? You decide.

The advertising claim - “There is nothing remotely close to the ability of THE OXYGENATOR™ to create an Oxygen-rich environment…” Well, that sounds very impressive when lack of oxygen in boat livewell is the # 1 summer water quality problem that is often deadly for tournament bass and any other fish being transported in boat livewells in the summer. I get a jingle from this add because I have had fish suffocate in my livewell in the summer and low oxygen is the # 1 livewell water quality problem every summer.

Another advertising claim - Oxygenation via THE OXYGENATOR™ from O2 Marine actually creates pure, 100-percent Oxygen from the water itself. Because this oxygen generator produces pure 100% oxygen should warrant fire safety warning, special operations instructsions addressing pure oxygen safety and safety precautions when using pure 100$ oxygen. I found no fire safety information here.

The advertisement claims and infomercial claims look impressive and would entice the average bass boat buyer to buy… buy an oxygenator for each livewell in his bass boat because this products makes pure oxygen with water, an electrolysis Hydrogen–Oxygen generator and a battery. **And this products insures an oxygen-rich [livewell] environment too just like these other 2 air products we’ve discussed in this thread. The Oxygenator produces 2 gallons hydrogen for every 1 gallon of oxygen in a closed livewell – hydrogen is an explosive gas like propane/butane.

Imagine this for a moment… a bass boat livewell with the livewell lid closed 2-3 hours on tournament day, 2 gallons of pure hydrogen gas, 1 gallon of pure oxygen gas and an ignition source (live electricity) all inside a closed livewell and no mention of any possibility of explosion or fire safety.

Now let’s look at the “spoiler.” The “spoiler” is the bona-fide 3rd party scientific testing, evaluation and internet publication by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. The “spoiler” paints a very different picture of this product compared to the manufacture advertisement, infomercials and fishermen’s testimonials on the internet.
Review the “spoiler”, the published 3rd party scientific testing, evaluation and conclusion with the product advertisement, infomercial and fisherman’s personal testimonials omitted.

AquaInnovations Oxygenator – “How Effective is It” - by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it

Now compare the “Spoiler” above to the published Oxygenator Testimonials – Here: http://keepfishalive.com/testimonials.php
The veracity of this Texas Parks and Wild Department Inland Fisheries Divisions 3rd party testing and published research shines a very bright light on the Oxygenator.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Hey J, here’s another fantastic learning opportunity this morning for you, me and other bass fishermen watching this thread.

No disrespect intended, but again, you may want to re-think this claim you made, “ “But don't by into the ludicrous statements like "air is not oxygen" and that our atmospheric air is and inefficient resource of oxygen.” Why? Because I believe your claim here is highly suspect and lacks veracity.

In America all 8th grade General Science students learn in Junior High School that air is not oxygen. They learn unlike atmospheric air, Oxygen (O2 gas) is a pure elemental gas, atmospheric air is a mixture of many gases plus a little water vapor. Atmospheric air gas mixtures; nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, helium, CO2, Argon, other trace elemental gases and water vapor… atmospheric gases and water vapor are colorless, tasteless and have no detectable odor unless less you’re in an electrical storm and the ozone concentration gets high enough to smell ozone gas.

Junior High School kids learn that atmospheric air consist of mostly nitrogen (80%) but air does have a tiny dab of elemental oxygen (20% O2) in the atmospheric air gas mixture at sea level and at the summit of Mt. Everest.

There is only one way to know the dissolved oxygen levels in any bass boat livewell water, test the water with a dissolved oxygen meter. Of course testing the DO in a bass boat livewell should always be done when the livewell contains a maximum limit of bass. Testing the DO in bass livewell water with no bass in the livewell is totally meaningless.

There are 2 ways to confirm gaseous oxygen-rich or oxygen enriched atmospheres. In the gas space inside a livewell or bait well a standard oxygen meter is used, like O2 meters used by in hospitals ER’s and ICU’s to measure oxygen concentration for life support equipment. And the same type O2 meters are used in industrial environments to test work place environmental oxygen concentrations. And of course in the underground mining industry- employee safety matters.

In Chemistry labs students confirm oxygen enrichment with the “Glowing Splint Test”, a glowing ember if the ember burst into a flam when exposed to an oxygen –rich environment (greater than 23.5% oxygen).

J, Have you ever really checked the dissolved oxygen saturation in a bass boat livewell containing 25 lbs. of mature tournament bass @ 3 PM on a hot August tournament day… a bass boat livewell with a V-2T air vent in the livewell lid?

I find no 3rd party DO test results published on New Pro Products (V-2T air vents) website, advertisement, infomercials… there’s just nothing substanciating any validity of any livewell oxygen enrichment. Please post any 3rd party oxygen-enrichment or DO saturation test results that will prove up your oxygen-rich claim.
These fishery experts are not talking about atmospheric air here, they are talking about oxygen (O2) and oxygen rich environments.

Learn more about oxygen-rich environments, check it out: http://pentairaes.com/commercial-solutions/commercial-aquaculture/solutions/oxygenation
Oh what a difference there really is between air and oxygen (O2)!

Oxygen vs. Air - http://pentairaes.com/learn-about-aquaculture/technical-talks/oxygen-or-aeration-tt80
And if and when you are really in a learning opportunity mood… here’s more opportunity and published expert opinion:
Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll TPWP, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml

Livewell Oxygen Injection Systems by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/livewell-oxygen-injection-8773301

J and I, we both really love new learning opportunities… are we having fun learning now or what?
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

despite all the info above posted by Tony here are a couple of things to think about:

venting a livewell will actually prevent the environment within from becoming dangerously "oxygen enriched" however that doesn't mean it doesn't or wont help raise the oxygen content of the water which is the whole goal.

dispersing air or oxygen into water is going to raise the oxygen content of the water.

given that livewells are not air tight I doubt there is a significant risk/fire hazard from any of the items referred to above except maybe the compressed oxygen and I would think you'd have to have the right combination REALLY tight fitting lids, someone opening the regulator wide open and the opening the livewell with a lit cigarette or lighter right there at the livewell.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Thanks for joining in Rusty - Your opinions are always welcomed especially when/if your opinions are substantiated with scientific facts for verification.

Rusty, in your opinion, what the difference between oxygen enriched 22% oxygen and you’re comment, "… dangerously oxygen enriched"?

By the way, what % oxygen enrichment is you’re understanding of “dangerous oxygen enriched”? I have no idea what “dangerous oxygen enrichment means, please explain. I Googled the term and found nothing. But it sure sounds interesting…

“While normal atmosphere contains between 20.8 and 21 percent oxygen, OSHA defines as oxygen deficient any atmosphere that contains less than 19.5 percent oxygen, and as oxygen enriched, any atmosphere that contains more than 22 percent.” https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=active&q=osha+defined+oxygen+enrichment

Rusty’s opinion, “I doubt there is a significant risk/fire hazard from any of the items referred to above except maybe the compressed oxygen…” If you “doubt” and don’t really know the facts, that’s OK. Why not eliminate all your doubts about oxygen enrichment danger and safety matters; click this, read it, digest it, learn it and rid yourself of that doubt. Enjoy

[PDF]recognising and addressing the hazards of oxygen enrichment
www.airproducts.com/~/.../en-recognizing-hazards-of-o2-enrichment-337-09-010.pd...
1. Cached
2. Similar
greater than 23% oxygen, since above this concentration, the reactivity of oxygen significantly increases the risk of ignition and fire. Materials that may not burn ...

If you want more just Google this - “oxygen enrichment fire hazards” You will discover much more factual information in this issue here.

Your assumption that all livewells are not air tight is incorrect, no disrespected intended. Many higher quality specialty boat livewell are air tight and even pressurized at several psi above ambient sea level air pressure for very good reasons. One reason is dissolved oxygen saturation is easily increase by increasing gas tension. Pressurizing livewells and other methods that increasing gas tension work great, like a little hyperbaric chamber. SCUBA divers are very familiar the practice of manipulating barometric pressures to increase or decrease gas tensions.

I have seen The Rod Jimmy… cool. Do you sell them or promote them?

Thanks for participating in this learning opportunity with us, come back soon with more information for us. J and I, we both love learning opportunities.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

let me correct my above statement, I have never seen an air tight bass boat livewell, if its got carpeted, its not air tight. if it has an overflow its not air tight, it could even be argued that if the pump isn't actually running that the livewell isn't air tight, if all other areas are sealed.

have a nice day.

I make and sell The Rod Jimmy.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Good idea... How many people do you employ?
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Great, Merry Christmas Rusty.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Yes, I do understand the use of how pure oxygen is used in hospitals. Folks that have chronic conditions like COPD or emphysema are often put on pure oxygen because their lungs are damaged and it is harder for them to maintain good oxygen saturation levels. Also, when any of us need a surgery we will given oxygen because sedation comprises our own bodies ability to breath properly.

I do also know that when a individual's lungs cannot function they are then put on a ventilator for a period of time or maybe even for the rest of their life. Ventilators will mechanically breathe using "air" (atmospheric air) because it carries a all the oxygen that is needed.


Everyone one of us understand that air does contain oxygen, because that is what we are all breathing in at this very moment to get the oxygen we all need. But to say that air is not oxygen implies that there is no oxygen in air and we all know this is false. For example, if a person's head was held under water after about 30 seconds they would soon be fighting to surface to come up for what?? That is right.. air. A true statement would be that air contains oxygen, but is not 100% oxygen.

Our atmosphere contains about 20.9 percent of oxygen, and because of the weight of oxygen and gravity most of the oxygen in our atmosphere is closer to the ground and mostly under 10,000 ft elevation. When we measure dissolved oxygen levels in water we do this by parts per million. The 20.9 percent of atmospheric air equals 210,000 parts per million. This is why atmospheric air is the main resource of dissolved oxygen in our lakes via the process of atmospheric diffusion.

There are many factors as to why the water in livewells struggle to maintain good levels of dissolved oxygen; aerators running on timers, salt or salt-based additives can lower the water's carrying capacity of dissolved oxygen, water temperature can also have an effect. The build up of CO2 is the biggest problem as it displaces oxygen in the livewell and as fish breathe in the CO2 it will increase in the fishes blood stream and will not allow them to take in dissolved oxygen. Research scientists have now learned that CO2 is the biggest risk to fish mortality in livewells. (Reference: Dr. Cory Suski - Suski Lab University of Urbana- Illinois)

This is the unique feature the V-T2 brings to the livewell. It is the only product to prevent this harmful gas to building up in the livewell. This is why our customers say they have no more odor or foam in the livewell because this was always a sign of the build up of harmful gases.

We have anglers that run the TH Marine Pro Air systems and the V-T2 with great results. We also have anglers that run the Oxygenator and the V-T2 with great results. Simply because the V-T2 removes these harmful gases and these great products can operate at much greater efficiency once the CO2 is removed. Atmospheric air is and always will be an abundant oxygen resource.

My apologies to the great members of the Chattanooga Fishing Forum. I am not an advertiser here and I only wanted to explain how the V-T2 Livewell Ventilation System works because the original posts where posting false information about our product. I will not comment on this post again as I did not come on here to promote the V-T2 without out being a paying sponsor. I shared from my first post my full name which is Judy Tipton and that I am the owner of New Pro Products and the inventor of the V-T2 Livewell Ventilation System.

I do think it is time for "Tony" to do the same. Why don't you tell all the folks on here what your real name is, the name of your company, and the product you are wanting to promote?

I am amazed how someone can think people would trust a person, company, or their product that would will hide their identity to post on a forum without being a paying sponsor just to slam another company's products to make theirs look better.

You may think you can teach me about science "Tony", but once folks here fact check what I have written, they will learn that everything I have told them is scientifically accurate. Also, I have shown that I have the integrity to stand behind my own product, which I give all the credit to my Lord and Savior. I am just the steward. He put all the natural processes in place, the V-T2 just allows them to be at work in the livewell as they are everyday in our lakes.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Just a footnote: If you read my statements, I have never once stated that atmospheric air is oxygen. I have always been clear in that it is a component (in scientific terms, an element) of oxygen and is 20.9 percent of our atmosphere which equals 210,000 ppm. The oxygen in our atmosphere is produced mainly by photosynthesis from plants on land and in the water. Atmospheric air is what we breathe and is the delivery mechanism for the oxygen we need at a safe level as well as the most consistent resource of dissolved oxygen for the water in our lakes. My point that I have only wanted to make to anglers is that atmospheric air is not an inefficient resource of oxygen for fish held in a livewell.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Jay says, “Yes, I do understand the use of how pure oxygen is used in hospitals. Folks that have chronic conditions like COPD or emphysema are often put on pure oxygen because their lungs are damaged…” No disrespect J, but I don’t think you understand this at all either.

A quick Fact Check:

Patients with advanced COPD and emphysema are actually seldom put on pure 100% oxygen in hospitals or at home therapeutically unless they are vitally ill. Then they are usually intubated or have a tracheostomy and placed on ventilator life support.

If <100% is given and the patient cannot maintain PaO2 Sat of 88% then and only then is 100% O2 administered, usually through the ventilator. The life sustaining pulmonary objective is to maintain the patients PaO2 Sat at 88% - 92% and sometimes, but not often, COPD patients that do require breathing 100% O2 or more exotic life support measures. 100% oxygen administration may also be delivered with a non-rebreathing oxygen mask in some situations in some.

A quick explanation for the real reasons behind oxygen-induced hypercarbia in COPD (Hint: It’s probably not depressed respiratory drive!)

Also See: Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide in COPD Retention in COPD http://lifeinthefastlane.com/ccc/oxygen-and-co2-retention-in-copd/

More likely related to V/Q mis-matching and the Haldane effect

Most people think that this is due to loss of hypoxic drive, and subsequent hypoventilation. Although this may be true for a small minority of patients, the majority will retain carbon dioxide due to V/Q mismatching.

Localised low PaO2 in the lung leads to localised vasoconstriction, to areas of poor ventilation have appropriately poor perfusion, redirecting blood to areas of better ventilation. This protects the COPD patient from V/Q mismatch.

If a high concentration of oxygen [ie. 100% O2] is given to a patient, loco-regional low oxygen concentration will be abolished, and with local hypoxic vasoconstriction. Thus, perfusion returns to normal, but ventilation is poor. This is termed a shunt, and results in worsening hypoxia, and most importantly, hypercarbia. https://utswim.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/why-do-copd-patients-retain-co2-when-given-too-much-oxygen/

Now let’s get back to other issues -----

J says, “My point that I have only wanted to make to anglers is that atmospheric air is not an inefficient resource of oxygen for fish held in a livewell.”

Again, let’s review 1 more time some other professional opinions and citations, fishery experts that have a different opinions than yours regarding air (livewell aeration and air vents) and oxygen (livewell oxygenation): What is best and what is less than the best methods of livewell oxygen enrichment.

1. Keeping Bass Alive in Hot Weather Tournament anglers encouraged to consider oxygen injection in livewells Texas Parks & Wildlife Inland Fisheries News Release. Media Contact: TPWD News, [email protected], 512-389-8030 June 15, 2011 “Dissolved oxygen is the single most important factor for keeping bass alive,” said Randy Myers, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) Inland Fisheries biologist from San Antonio http://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20110615b

2. Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll TPWP, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml

3. Tony Owens
NRS V – Hatchery Manager
Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center
[email protected]
Office # 903-670-2236

I am responding to your email sent to Kyle Brookshear about Largemouth Bass transport.
We do not use the air vent method you described.

To insure your Largemouth Bass arrive healthy and alive, I would suggest getting a cylinder of compressed oxygen, an oxygen regulator, oxygen hose and a micro-bubble oxygen diffuser and put that in your transport tank.

4. Livewell Oxygen Injection Systems by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/livewell-oxygen-injection-8773301 Dissolved oxygen is the single-most critical factor for maintaining health of black bass retained in livewells. •Various oxygen equipment was tested to determine a simple, effective, and safe system for maintaining desirable dissolved oxygen (>7.0 mg/l) in livewells.

5. Building an Oxygen Injection system for a bass boat livewell by Todd Driscoll, Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Inland Fisheries Supervisor, District 3D, 900 CR 218, Brookeland, TX 75931 and tournament bass fisherman - TP&WD U-Tube 6-8-2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EP3d9v5y8

J says, “Research scientists have now learned that CO2 is the biggest risk to fish mortality in livewells. (Reference: Dr. Cory Suski - Suski Lab University of Urbana- Illinois).

J… Here is a new learning opportunity for you so let’s learn something new today… first, let’s learn Scientific Style and Format Citation Format Quick Guide http://www.scientificstyleandformat.org/Tools/SSF-Citation-Quick-Guide.html and use it so we all can easily find and Fact Check your citations.

FACT CHECK TIME: I Googled “CO2 is the biggest risk to fish mortality in livewells. (Reference: Dr. Cory Suski - Suski Lab University of Urbana- Illinois)” …… and found this:

Dr. Cory Suski, Publications
fishlab.nres.illinois.edu/Publications.html
1. Cached
2. Similar

Fish physiology, fish ecology, fisheries conservation. ... Carbon dioxide as a tool to deter the movement of invasive Bigheaded Carps.
This publication is about using CO2 to manipulate the movement of invasive Bigheaded Carps in environmental waters. Although this is about CO2, I fail to see any relationship here with tournament bass, CO2 water quality in bass boat livewells, transporting tournament caught bass – this reference offered up by J, after taking the time finding it on Google is no more than a meaningless distraction. Come on J, cite the name of the publication, the authors, and especially the URL so we can find, read and evaluate the validity of the reference you’re citing.

Now J’s V-2T New Pro Products internet advertisement and the “oxygen–rich air” claim…

V-T2 Livewell Ventilation System - New Pro Products
www.newproproducts.com/products.html
1. Cached
2. Similar
Incredibly easy to install, the New Pro Products V-T2 Livewell Ventilation ... your trolling motor or running your boat to direct AMBIENT AND OXYGEN-RICH AIR into the … livewell.

“Oxygen-rich air”… I find no 3rd party scientific verification nor citation verifying this product claim. I find no mention on this website about fire safety or fire safety instructions in regards to this air vent capability of producing “oxygen-rich air” in bass boat livewells--- I find NO FIRE SAFETY ADVISO/WARNINGS about “oxygen rich atmospheres” on boats on this website?

J, I'll ask you again, please cite just one or two 3rd party scientific opinions/publications that prove up you’re claim that V-2T air vent directs “oxygen-rich air” into any bass boat livewell while the boat is moving or the wind is blowing.

And also, what per cent oxygen is actually in this “oxygen-rich atmospheric air” your air vents produce? The per cent oxygen is very important when it comes ensuring minimal livewell DO saturation and fire safety on any boat.

J and I really love new learning opportunities. We’re always learning new stuff and Fact Checking.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Hi J… let’s share another learning opportunity this morning.

Does this sound familiar to you J? “All biologists state that most fish need about 5ppm (parts per million) of dissolved oxygen in the water to have a healthy environment.” You use this a lot when your promoting your livewell vents for bass boat livewells (oxygen-rich air). This is your pivot sentence that transition the subject from air vents for livewell oxygenation to environmental oxygen for rivers and such. Then your long dissertation about how lakes and rivers waters are oxygenated, what’s safe oxygenation, what’s not safe oxygenation for river water.

Question? J - Do you have any idea where 5 PPM DO Concentration comes from?

FACT: Do not confuse EPA Environmental DO standards in lakes, streams and rivers with dissolved oxygen (DO) standards required for live fish and live bait transport (livewell, bait tank and live haul tank).

Live transport DO requirements are special. DO standards used by Federal, State and private fish hatcheries are very different than EPA Environmental water DO standards.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) stated many years ago in the last century that 5 PPM (parts per million) dissolved oxygen concentration is safe for fish living undisturbed in natural steady state environmental waters (lakes, rivers, ponds and streams).

The EPA says 5 PPM DO is an acceptable, safe and satisfactory dissolved oxygen water quality parameter for undisturbed wild fish living in steady state environments found in lakes, reservoirs, rivers, ponds, etc. provided the fish are not under constant, severe, extreme stress or captives like commonly found in live fish transport conditions in hostile overcrowded fishermen’s livewells and bait tanks every summer.
D
o not confuse water quality DO requirements between lakes and ponds and high stress capture, hours of confinement and transports in boat livewells, bait tanks and tournament live release boat haul tanks in hostile hot summer conditions.

Fish hatcheries and fishery biologist require 100% dissolved oxygen saturation continuously for every live haul (1 fish or 2000 fish), the 100% DO Saturation “Gold Standard” required when they transport live mature and juvenile bait fish and mature tournament caught game fish. Fish hatcheries always administer plenty of pure compressed welding oxygen or LOX for every live haul.

When it comes to how much dissolved oxygen is required and necessary to have a safe DO water quality in livewell/bait tank, providing enough supplemental oxygen to insure continuous 100% DO Saturation is absolutely necessary for all fish hatchery transports and especially for fishermen that overstocked their livewells in the summer.
Fishermen transporting live bait and tournament fish in overcrowded aerated boat livewells and aerated bait tanks in harsh hot summer conditions for 8-10 hours daily is NOT A SAFE livewell ENVIRONMENT by any stretch of the imagination. Summer tournament mortality and high live bait mortality testify to that fact. All summer live bait fishermen and summer tournament fishermen know that.

Transports in summer livewells and bait tanks is high stress, serious continuous CRISIS INTERVENTION all day, this is not normal low stress steady state conditions. Real life support systems are necessary if any real success is expected.

FACT: 5 PPM DO is not acceptable safe oxygenation for live fish transport.

FACT: 100% DO SATURATION OR GREATER (DO SUPERSATURATION) is required and considered minimal safe oxygenation by all fish hatcheries for all live fish transports… even for transporting only 1 fish (TP&WD “Share a Lunker”- Bass Conservation Program in Athens, TX).

FACT: 100% DO SATURATION OR GREATER (DO SUPERSATURATION) must be sustained continuously with the maximum fish or bait load inside the livewell – NOT JUST A LIVEWELL FULL OF WATER WITHOUT FISH OR LIVE BAIT IN THE WELL. This may be 1 fish in 20 gallons of water or 60 lbs. of fish in 20 gallons of water summer, fall, spring or winter… hot weather or cool/cold weather.

100% DO Saturation with a maximum fish load in the livewell is confirmed with DO Testing. A livewell water pump running or an air vent in the lid of a bass boat livewell does do not insure that a livewell is functional or air will not insure continuous 100% DO saturation with a heavy limit of tournament bass.
Let’s not confuse fishermen and fishing article writers with EPA environmental DO Concentration (5 PPM) standards with minimal safe live fish transport DO Saturation standards (100% DO Saturation) any more.

Regarding live tournament bass transports in bass boat livewells - Let’s stick with live fish transport DO Gold Standards used exclusively used by TP&WD ShareLunker Program, all fish hatcheries in the US and all the professional live shiner transporters that haul live shiners successfully to bait shops throughout America every day…. They all maintain a minimum of 100% DO Saturation continuously for the entire transport time. They are the real expert live fish transporters and we should pay very close attention and learn to how they transport fish when we transport live tournament bass in our bass boat livewells all day.

It’s Pearl Harbor Day, another great day in America… I want to personally thank all the US Veterans today for their military service and protecting our families and our way of life, especially all the Pearl Harbor and WWII veterans this morning… A GREAT BIG THANK YOU Vets from myself and all my family!
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Still not sharing with folks who you really are?? In Kentucky we would call that person a chicken sh*t

Well, I am just a country girl from Kentucky and I used to fish a lot of tournaments. My education and degree is in biology from Murray State University.

I developed the V-T2 to help our fish stay alive and healthier in the livewell and not just for the weigh-in. I have grass-roots the product in the fishing market sharing how it works with anglers around the world. My only goal was to help anglers and our fish because I love our sport so much.

I am not anyone's teacher or an expert, but the V-T2 has proven to be very effective tool to improve fish care. So much so we received the endorsement of Gene Gilliland former fishery biologist and now Conservation Director of BASS. That was a very proud day for myself and New Pro Products.

The best way I know how to explain how effective the V-T2 is in maintaining good oxygen levels for fish is a comparison of two Top FLW Tour Events. In 2013, Randall Tharp had to quit before the tournament day was over because he had mechanical failure of his livewell and his limit were all dead by noon. Now, this is not a slam on his Ranger Boat at all. Ranger invented the livewell and we are all grateful for this advancement. But mechanical failures can happen. The same mechanical failure happened to Philip Jarabeck at the Lake Okeechobee FLW Tour event in 2014, the difference for Philip was he had the V-T2's installed on his boat. Philip and his co-angler's total limit was 25lbs, and both weighed in their fish alive and healthy. For Philip it secured him a 10,000 check a place in the FLW Cup. I will share the video from FLW so everyone will know I am telling the truth. So, if your batteries go down or you have mechanical failure of your aerator, recirculator or forgot to put oxygen in your bottles, the V-T2 can keep your fish alive and healthy!

Merry Christmas everyone!

https://youtu.be/NoqFLPZf54Q
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Judy, those of us that have your vents know they work. don't argue with this guy over semantics. the vents WORK.

dug through my stuff turns out ive got 4 more sets if someone wants a set, save ya some shipping to meet locally and i'll let you use my hole saw so you don't have to buy one. LOL!
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

<div>
</div><div>True Rusty. I am always supportive of any person, company or product that improves fish care at our tournaments. He actually makes me realize how fortunate I am to have been able to develop the V-T2. It is very humbling to know the V-T2 was named the "most significant advancement in fish care since the invention of the livewell". Who knows what other person out there will bring to the market next? If I can do it, then anybody can do it.</div>

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