Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLunker

Chattanooga Fishing Forum

Help Support Chattanooga Fishing Forum:

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Judy, in the last few days of “learning opportunity” on this fishing forum you have clearly failed to demonstrate your veracity.

You clearly will not produce any bona-fide scientific testing verification proving up many of your internet V-2T advertising claims and many questionable claim you have made on this forum thread.

Again, on this last internet magazine article you posted today, I find no scientific testing done on your air vents verifying and scientifically proving up your advertisement claim documented by any 3rd party expert.

This magazine piece presents no testing for oxygen-rich atmospheric air inside the livewell with an oxygen meter before or after the boat is moving, no dissolved oxygen testing of the livewell water with a DO meter, no testing for any changes in toxic metabolic gas concentrations in the livewell gas space, no CO2 gas concentration testing, no ammonia gas concentrations tested of the livewell gases, no pH testing of the gases inside the livewell… no nothing of any scientific value.

All I see is here is a writer, writing a general promotional piece promoting your product in this internet magazine, that’s all I see in this piece. This piece certainly is not scientific nor does it have any valid scientific test results cited. I found no credentials of this author listed in this magazine piece that makes him an expert validating any product advertising claims… no disrespect intended toward the writer or his piece.

When you hear a wild unbelievable advertising claim with no scientific verification, no scientific testing that is reproducible, no scientific citation, no scientific publication to cite, nothing… then some people may distrust the claimant advertisement and then a knowledgable fisherman would want to see some, see any scientific verification and proof of reliability of the advertisers claim.

But when the claim cannot be/is not verified and documented scientifically, verified by 3rd party scientific testing using scientific instruments and methods, if the test results can be reproduced by another expert in the field, it is probably snake-oil… If scientific testing is not done, cannot be cited and demonstrated, well the advertising claim is questionable or misleading or maybe even false. Then trust is questionable.

Trusting a product, the advertisement and the sales-woman: All products that will create oxygen-rich environmental conditions always require specific fire safety knowledge, instruction and or training.

Personally, I do not believe Judy’s air vents or Billy Don’s air vents can or will create an oxygen-rich livewell environment when atmospheric air is the only source gas blowing through the air vent. I believe that advertisement is false and deceptive after a little fact checking combined with a few Google searches, several professional expert fishery biologist opinions, review of the Chemistry Gas Laws and other materials.

I would highly suggest that if you really believe that your V-2T air vent device will create an oxygen-rich atmospheric livewell environment, you might contact and consult with:

The Hodge Law Firm
2211 The Strand Street, Ste. 303
Galveston, TX 77550
Ph (409) 356-9017
Email [email protected]
Website: http://hodgefirm.businesshomepage.i...-g-m128497-c523177-g1272623-maritime+attorney

Don’t be foolish and assume unnecessary product liability and risk - ASK A LAWYER THAT SPECALIZES IN MARITIME LAW

The Hodge Law Firm specializes in Maritime Law. These lawyers are experts on boat risk and liability matters… like oxygen enriched fires on boats and oxygen fire safety requirements on boats… the consultation and phone call is FREE.

But, if your air vents DO NOT/WILL NOT produce and oxygen enriched livewell environments on a bass boat, well no oxygen-rich atmospheric environment can exist because or your air vents are not capable of creating and oxygen-rich environmental condition and the legal liability of an potential oxygen-rich fire is not possible. That’s simple enough.

If Rusty is employed by you selling your V-2T air vents, installing them and using the same advertisement wording… that these air vents he’s promoting and selling will in fact produce an oxygen-rich atmospheric air livewell environment on a bass boat, it may be prudent that he also contacts The Hodge Law Firm on his own because he may also share some risk and liability along with you if he sells this product. Don’t know if Rusty is as college educated like you or has any concept about product risk/liability issues, but Rusty is in it up to his neck too if he is actually representing or selling the product to the public.

This brings up another issue…do you and Rusty carry any product liability insurance on your V-2T air vents? Does your product liability carrier know that your product is advertised, that your V-2T air vents will produce an oxygen-rich atmospheric environment inside bass boats and that is a major selling point?

Judy, Rusty and I, we all love new learning opportunities and this one is special.

Naughty words are not necessary and unbecoming Judy. Be professional, clean up your pottie-mouth.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

J, Rusty, let’s have another great learning opportunity this morning. Let’s talk about 1 of those “harmful metabolic gases” common in bass boat livewells. Let’s talk specifically about CO2 gas this morning.

Yes, if the concentration of CO2 is high enough it can be harmful for bass and/or people, but you would be eaten by a white shark before you ever poisoned a tournament bass with too much CO2 gas.

People overdose with opiates, tranquilizers and alcohol poison themselves. Some even die when they OD on these drugs or use combinations of these drugs. Some OD deaths are intentional, some accidental, either way… death is peaceful. These drugs, like CO2, do suppress respiration, induce hypoventilation, cause apnea, respiratory arrest and death.

See: Hypercapnia (CO2 Narcosis) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia The narcotic effect of high CO2 concentrations.

How much CO2 gas do bass exhale? For every 1.0 liters of oxygen bass consume, bass expel 0.9 liters of CO2 at normal metabolic rates.

Do you ever buy livewell chemicals that claim to calm bass down or tranquilizes bass in your bass boat livewells on tournament day?

The advertisement claims to incorporate some usually “unknown, not labeled” chemical ingredient in their livewell additives that tranquilize bass, calms and relaxes bass, reduces bass metabolism therefore reducing the bass’s respiratory rate. The advertising logic - if the bass is drugged then the bass breathes less, ***they consume less oxygen in the livewell and oxygen availability is in short supply all day for many hours with a heavy limit of bass in the livewell because air (mechanical aeration) is always limited by only 21% oxygen…. That’s simple and easy to understand. There’s not enough oxygen available for all the bass so conserve oxygen, tranquilize the bass.

Tranquilizing the catch in the livewell with “bass-saver chemicals” implies that the bass fisherman practices great “tournament bass–care” using these livewell chemicals faithfully… and these chemicals are not cheap. Add up your livewell chemical costs for 1 year and see how much money you spent for these chemicals. Bass fishermen buy these tranquilizer livewell chemicals the tons and medicate their catch all day at every bass tournament in America… that a lot of drugs bass soak in all day. A lot of drugs dumped to lakes and rivers every year.

Bass tournament official often give these fish saver-chemical to contestants as promotional favors to companies that make these chemicals, a "quid-pro-quo" deal..

If you have a good stringer of bass in a summer tournament and your aerated livewell DO is low, why in the world would you administer a fish drug that tranquilizes your catch and suppresses breathing, causing additional complications like hypoventilation and respiratory acidosis?

If you really must use a tranquilizing agent in your livewell, why not use natural CO2 (a harmful metabolic gas?). Do you know that CO2 is a great a great fish tranquilizer/anesthetic agent and it’s FREE. Bass produce it naturally, CO2 is a natural metabolic waste product and the supply is continuous IF you can keep your bass alive in the boat livewell all day. Keep the CO2, use it, don’t flush it out of the livewell gas space because CO2 is a natural fish tranquilizer.

I seriously doubt that CO2 gas in any bass boat livewell ever poisoned a bass in a tournament day.

So, let’s look closer at CO2 gas found in bass boat livewells… a positive side of CO2 gas accumulation in livewells. Sure CO2 can be toxic at high concentrations in livewells, but in reality CO2 never reaches "harmful" concentration nor gets high enough to cause mortality, that’s hum-bug, scare-me stuff.

Southern Regional Aquaculture Center
Anesthetics in Aquaculture, November 2004
Shawn D. Coyle, Robert M. Durborow and James H. Tidwell* http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/aquaculture/documents/5864154-3900fs.pdf

Carbon dioxide, CO2, has been used as an anesthetic for many years, especially during transport.
It is extremely soluble in water and can simply be diffused into the water as CO2 gas.

Carbon dioxide anesthesia is effective…

Carbon dioxide requires a relatively long induction time—generally 5 minutes at concentrations of 120 to
640 mg/L [640 ppm]. The main advantage of carbon dioxide is that it is not a controlled substance in the U. S. and is recognized as a “Low Regulatory Priority,” unapproved drug by the FDA.

***This permits its use in food fish with no withdrawal time. At this time it is the only chemical method available for harvesting or transporting food fish to market. [This also applies tournament bass that are treated all day in bass boat livewells, then released alive back into environmental waters at the end of the tournament.]

THE MAIN FACTORS AND PRINCIPLES ASSOCIATED WITH FISH TRANSPORT http://www.fao.org/docrep/009/af000e/AF000E02.htm
2.3 pH, Carbon Dioxide and Ammonia – “As Pecha, Berka and Kouril (1983) assert, the critical CO2 concentrations in closed systems range about 140 ml/litre [140 PPM] for thermophilous fish… [warm water black bass].

Is CO2 gas, a natural black bass metabolic gas harmful in closed bass boat livewells in concentrations less than 140 PPM CO2 concentration? I don’t really think it is harmful at all!

Scientific testing with a CO2 meter is necessary to determine if CO2 gas concentration is really “Harmful”, an unsafe livewell problem that actually requires ambient air ventilation in any livewell gas space.

J, do you have a CO2 meter? Have you, Rusty, any of your scientific associates or a 3rd party ever actually tested CO2 concentrations any bass boat livewell to determine if the CO2 gas concentrations is really “Harmful” not safe, (140 PPM CO2 or greater)?
Of course there are other natural occurring metabolic waste in livewells that must also be consider: Ammonia, acid pH - livewell water pH, nitrites, nitrates and let’s not leave out all the metabolic waster produced by the millions of micro-organisms living in that livewell water, they must be also be considered in the total livewell water quality matter.

We’ll look at, talk about other potentially “Harmful” organic metabolites commonly found in bass boat livewells another day. And, how to effectively control them and keep them within safe, non-toxic limits all day in any bass boat livewell.

We’ve had another fine “learning opportunity” about CO2 today.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Judy posted on this thread 12/3/2016 11:58 AM (#668775 - in reply to #665941)

J says, “…Now, water and our lakes are a lower solubility world. 5ppm is a safe level for most fish. Our atmosphere at 20.9% contains 210,000ppm. All the natural lakes and man-made lakes get most of their oxygen from the atmosphere.”

Then J says, “This is why the Corp of Engineers never had to build oxygen producing plants at any of our lakes…”

J, this is another example of your lack of veracity, lack of knowledge, simple ignorance or shucking and jiving about what’s “NOT GOING ON” in our Nations lakes to insure the environmental DO water quality in the fishery remains healthy.

Let’s do a quick FACT-CHECK J… and have another great ”learning opportunity” this morning.

PDF]Oxygen Diffuser System to Create Fish Habitat ... - Mobley Engineering
www.mobleyengineering.com/images/Gary_Hauser_and_Mark_Mobley.pdf
1. Cached
2. Similar
Jamie A Sykes, District Fisheries Biologist, U. S. Army Corps of Engineers, ... The reservoir oxygenation system in J. Strom Thurmond Lake is designed to improve ... of the JST project took place from 1946 – 1954, known as Clarks Hill Dam.

Clarks Hill Stripers Finding A More Oxygen-Rich Thermocline
www.gon.com/fishing/clarks-hill-stripers-finding-a-more-oxygen-rich-thermocline
1. Cached
2. Similar
Jul 31, 2013 - A new oxygen system on Clarks Hill is making for better striper water. .... At Clarks Hill, the Corps of Engineers worked out a solution that ...

Oxygen system goes operational | www.lincolnjournalonline.com ...
www.lincolnjournalonline.com/news/2011.../Oxygen_system_goes_operational.html
1. Cached
2. Similar
Jun 16, 2011 - Crew members are shown installing oxygen diffuser lines in Clark's Hill Lake. The United States Army Corps of Engineers awarded contracts to ...

Savannah District > About > Divisions and Offices > Operations ...
www.sas.usace.army.mil/About/Divisions-and-Offices/.../J.../Pictorial-Timeline/
1. Cached
Clark Hill Dam, built and operated by Savannah District, U.S. Army Corps of ... Colonel Paschal Strong, Savannah District Engineer, announced that Corps policy ... will improve dissolved oxygen levels in the river water below Thurmond Dam ...

Clark Hill Striper Club • View topic - First Trip to Clarks Hill
forums.chsc.us/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3745
1. Cached
2. Similar
Sep 4, 2012 - I am going to be coming to Clarks hill for a 3 day fishing trip the first wek ... You'd have to speak to the Army Corps of Engineers about why the lake is so low. ... the Modoc oxygen system (we need one of those in lake murray).

Lake Gets Oxygen Boost | DeFoor Realty
defoorrealty.com/lake-gets-oxygen-boost/
1. Cached
Mar 22, 2012 - A new system has been designed by the Army Corps of Engineers to improve fish habitat in Clarks Hill Lake / Thurmond Lake that could ...

[PDF]TR E-84-10 "Investigation and discussion of techniques for ...
acwc.sdp.sirsi.net/client/search/asset/1036820
1. Cached
and the US Army Corps of Engineers at Clarks Hill. Results from these ... design for a hypolimnetic oxygenation system at Richard B. Russell Reser- voir, South ...

[PDF]Dissolved nitrogen measurements at Clarks Hill Reservoir, Georgia ...acwc.sdp.sirsi.net/client/search/asset/1040545
1. Cached
Atlantic Division (SAD), U. S. Army Corps of Engineers. The reservoir is 42.7 rn ... to develop and test an oxygenation system in Clarks Hill Reservoir. If effective ...

Clark Hill club helps get funding restored -
Stripers247.com Forums
www.stripers247.com › ... › South Carolina - Interior
1. Cached
Jul 17, 2006 - 1 post - ?1 author
Clark Hill club helps get funding restored South Carolina - Interior. ... when oxygen levels are depleted, thanks to the efforts of the Clark Hill Striper Club. ... Corps of Engineers sought, but adequate to complete the system, ...

Alternatives in Regulated River Management
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0849348773
James A. Gore, ?Geoffrey E. Petts - 1989 - ?Technology & Engineering
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has experimented with turbine hub vent ports at ... oxygen system was tested in a pulse-mode operation at Clark Hill Dam ...

Hot-weather headliners - When summer arrives, good fishing doesn't ...
www.carolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=11825
1. Cached
Jul 1, 2014 - Also known as Clarks Hill Lake, it is the 10th most-visited USACE body of ... The oxygenation system is almost straight out from the ramp at the main ... are located at several of U.S. Army Corps of Engineers recreation areas.

J. Strom Thurmond Lake | - Balancing the Basin
balancingthebasin.armylive.dodlive.mil/tag/j-strom-thurmond-lake/
1. Cached
2. Similar
No matter how slight, November's rain a welcome sight. Posted on December 1, 2016 by US Army Corps of Engineers Savannah District. SAVANNAH, Ga – If ...

A Review of the Effects of Hypolimnetic Oxygenation on Lake and ...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/07438149909354124
1. Similar
by MW Beutel - ?1999 - ?Cited by 104 - ?Related articles
Anumber of short-term experimental oxygenation systems were operated in the 19705, but large scale systems were ..... Clark Hill Lake) , Georgia. Oxygen ...... Hill Lake. Report to the US Army Corps of Engineers, Savannah. District. Steinberg ...

The Corps of Engineers has made an “oxygen enriched oasis” under water using pure 100% oxygen. In the summer, this oxygenated oasis attracts, concentrates and holds all species of baitfish and gamefish. This is clearly an exceptional area to fish in any summer fishing tournament.

The Corps of Engineers is actually chumming baitfish and game fish with oxygen gas and it’s working exceptionally well every summer! Chumming fish with pure oxygen is better than chumming fish with food or scent.

Call and ask any fishing guide that fishes these oxygen enriched lake areas in the summer and see for yourself.
 
Re: Livewell air vents vs. supplemental oxygen administration with oxygen injection – Texas ShareLun

Let's have another great learning opportunity. Although my claim cannot be/is not verified and documented scientifically, verified by 3rd party scientific testing using scientific instruments and methods, I'm pretty sure that Tony M is not a fan of the V-T2 livewell vents (as he specifically bought them up) and may even possibly appear to be more in favor of the Sea-Dog stainless steel lo-profile louvered air vents (see his first two posts.)

I'm glad to see different views expressed, even if the veracity of some of the statements made by Judy or others may be in question or great pivots are used to alter the point one is discussing. It is a bit distressing (disclamer: I speak here only for myself and without reference to other internet sites and do not claim that this is verified by 3rd party scientific testing using scientific instruments and methods), but I believe that when there is reference to advertising claims being "snake-oil", " questionable or misleading or maybe even false" and references to law firms, that you take your little diatribe elsewhere - possibly:

www.ENOUGHCRAPGROWUPALREADY

PS: This post is my personal opinion and is intended as a "learning opportunity" only. (By the way, this thread is now frozen)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top