Here is your chance, I'm listening... "Pro's" of Obamacare?

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SpurHunter - 3/25/2010 12:43 PM



QUOTE] I would just prefer kids were kept on a parents plan as long as possible, 26 seems to be a good cut off age. By then they would have had more than enough time to complete college, and graduate school and out being a productive member of society. Most young adults are still not very responsible, and spend insurance premium money on Ipods, music downloads and beer.
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EXACTLY why I am not a Democrat. Why should irrisonsible behavior by these young adults constitue an emergency on the rest of the country to provide health care to them? I dont mind the provision to allow them to stay on an insurance plan, the parents owe it to themselves or their kids to decied when to remove them. BUT, it seems to me the core of the Dem party just doesnt have a grip OR believe in personal responsibility and acountability. Where does it say in our constituion that everybody will and should be taken care of fiscaly, morraly, their healthcare, etc? This non-sense about "fariness" is just absurd. Its very simple, work hard, dont spend like an elected Democrat, treat others the way you want to be treated and God willing, you will reap all the rewards you want in life. </p>[/QUOTE]

Thank you Spur..I am glad someone is seeing my point of personal responsiblilty. I think the cut off was 23 and i think that is too much. At 22 i was working part time, goingto school part time and bought my insurance. It was very expensive but i did it.

ANd for every 1 person that would use this for right reasons there are 100 who would use it to fraud the sytem and i thought this was what this reform was supposed to get rid of.
 
outcaster - 3/25/2010 1:12 PM

Fishheadspin - 3/25/2010 10:58 AM

outcaster - 3/24/2010 5:58 PM

emoScratch Gotta admit..... These last few posts are the first time I've heard anyone come out against keeping young adults on a parents health plan.... seems that most people should want that..... They will be INSURED....... and I won't have to pay their medical bills when they go to ER.

They could get a job and get insurance and not sponge off mom and dad! Oh no that would terrible to have to work for something! we are not talking abotu teenagers we are talking about 25 year olds!

I would just prefer kids were kept on a parents plan as long as possible, 26 seems to be a good cut off age. By then they would have had more than enough time to complete college, and graduate school and out being a productive member of society. Most young adults are still not very responsible, and spend insurance premium money on Ipods, music downloads and beer.

26 seems to be a good cut off age? Why not 30 or 40. What the hell just leave them on the insurance until mom and pop croak then the kids assume the policy. Makes just as much sense.
EXACTLY why I'm not a demonrat. I could not look myself in the mirror knowing I took from someone that worked hard for what they had only to give it to an irresponsible deadbeat.
 
Food for thought on the age thing.

True story.

A friend of mine while in college (age 21) hurt his knee will playing intramural sports. His parents could barely afford his tuition (state school), although they both worked 50 hours a week. He was on no insurance. He was on a partial scholarship (work/study) and was already working 20 hrs a week to pay for rent and food. He had to delay getting any medical treatment. Three years passes by (he went to graduate school immediately after undergrad, on scholarship (which forbids outside work)) and his medical condition is even worse. After school he gets his first job with benefits, and the first thing he does is get his knee fixed. By this point it is a total replacement, had he got treatment 3 years before it would have been much cheaper. But without insurance how could he without bankrupting himself or his parents?

By allowing his parents to add them to their family plan, while he still is in school just makes sense. Besides a college student can be on a their families car insurance until their 25, why is health care term that much different?
 
Hell...Is this the biggest issue with this whole thing? An age? Surely to god theres more than that!?

I'm like Spur, lets hear bigger issues Pros or Cons.
 
Sniperchoke - 3/25/2010 1:01 PM

Possum - 3/24/2010 10:19 PM

Sniperchoke - 3/24/2010 8:56 PM

So we just spent 940 billion through the gov't for so called better insurance so the gov't can be less involved? Dang you and Pelosi might be on the same page. That statement doesn't even begin to make sense.

We have not spent anything yet. My statement will not make any sinse to you because you think the private sector is perfect. They are profit driven. You are on the side of greed, and I am on the side of need. Enough said.

The private sector is not perfect but is far better than gov't involvment. Yes I am on the side of profit you call it greed but it is the best way to motivate someone to do a good job. Just think about it if you are doing something for free you might take short cuts or do a half way job because after all its free and people should be happy with anything for free. But if you are being paid then a thorough job is required because the consumer can hold you accountible.

Don't even go there, no greed is where you say you can only pay your hourly employees this much, because you have to compete. While giving million dollar bonases for the bull crap exects. Why! sold to labor, about how lucky they are to have a job. "be glad your making what you are making" In the end laugh at the dumb bastards. Trust me big business could care less about nothing but profits. When things dry out here they will move on to somewhere else. Profit incentive is what drives our economy, don't insult my intellegence. However there is this thing called circular flow of income and output. There has to be a certain amout of income at all levels of our classes. If all the income rest at the top we can all heard sheep like they do in parts of middle east. I am not advocating communism, but businesses using cable and internet technology to advance their cause gives me more to worry about than our government. Until middle class can afford to maintain an average standard of living the economy cannot move forward. There is simply to much income at the top. Oil companies making 25 billion in profits every three months a few years ago. While sucking peoples credit cards. Then banks raising interest rates because people used them under thier existing contracts. Homes people thought affordable, inflation hits, no longer to afford. Snip just keep up the good cause, and I will keep mine up. By the way you guys are doing a good job.
 
BBass - 3/25/2010 5:26 PM

Hell...Is this the biggest issue with this whole thing? An age? Surely to god theres more than that!?

I'm like Spur, lets hear bigger issues Pros or Cons.

Your right... I thought the age provision was just a nice little perk to help everyone get covered. Didn't see all the outrage coming on that one.
 
Possum - 3/25/2010 6:24 PM

Sniperchoke - 3/25/2010 1:01 PM

Possum - 3/24/2010 10:19 PM

Sniperchoke - 3/24/2010 8:56 PM

So we just spent 940 billion through the gov't for so called better insurance so the gov't can be less involved? Dang you and Pelosi might be on the same page. That statement doesn't even begin to make sense.

We have not spent anything yet. My statement will not make any sinse to you because you think the private sector is perfect. They are profit driven. You are on the side of greed, and I am on the side of need. Enough said.

The private sector is not perfect but is far better than gov't involvement. Yes I am on the side of profit you call it greed but it is the best way to motivate someone to do a good job. Just think about it if you are doing something for free you might take short cuts or do a half way job because after all its free and people should be happy with anything for free. But if you are being paid then a thorough job is required because the consumer can hold you accountable.

Don't even go there, no greed is where you say you can only pay your hourly employees this much, because you have to compete. While giving million dollar bonases for the bull crap exects. Why! sold to labor, about how lucky they are to have a job. "be glad your making what you are making" In the end laugh at the dumb bastards. Trust me big business could care less about nothing but profits. When things dry out here they will move on to somewhere else. Profit incentive is what drives our economy, don't insult my intelligence. However there is this thing called circular flow of income and output. There has to be a certain amount of income at all levels of our classes. If all the income rest at the top we can all heard sheep like they do in parts of middle east. I am not advocating communism, but businesses using cable and internet technology to advance their cause gives me more to worry about than our government. Until middle class can afford to maintain an average standard of living the economy cannot move forward. There is simply to much income at the top. Oil companies making 25 billion in profits every three months a few years ago. While sucking peoples credit cards. Then banks raising interest rates because people used them under thier existing contracts. Homes people thought affordable, inflation hits, no longer to afford. Snip just keep up the good cause, and I will keep mine up. By the way you guys are doing a good job.

Walter says it much more eloquently than I do.
A MINORITY VIEW

BY WALTER WILLIAMS

RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 3, 2010



Who Poses the Greater Threat?



Bill Gates is the world's richest person, but what kind of power does he have over you? Can he force your kid to go to a school you do not want him to attend? Can he deny you the right to braid hair in your home for a living? It turns out that a local politician, who might deny us the right to earn a living and dictates which school our kid attends, has far greater power over our lives than any rich person. Rich people can gain power over us, but to do so, they must get permission from our elected representatives at the federal, state or local levels. For example, I might wish to purchase sugar from a Caribbean producer, but America's sugar lobby pays congressmen hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions to impose sugar import tariffs and quotas, forcing me and every other American to purchase their more expensive sugar.

Politicians love pitting us against the rich. All by themselves, the rich have absolutely no power over us. To rip us off, they need the might of Congress to rig the economic game. It's a slick political sleight-of-hand where politicians and their allies amongst the intellectuals, talking heads and the news media get us caught up in the politics of envy as part of their agenda for greater control over our lives.

The sugar lobby is just one example among thousands. Just ask yourself: Who were the major recipients of the billions of taxpayer bailout dollars, the so-called Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)? The top recipients of TARP handouts included companies such as Citibank, AIG, Goldman Sachs and General Motors. Their top management are paid tens of millions dollars to run companies that were on the verge of bankruptcy, were it not for billions of dollars in taxpayer money. Politicians preach the politics of envy whilst reaching into the ordinary man's pockets, through the IRS, and handing it over to their favorite rich people and others who make large contributions to their election efforts.

The bottom line is that it is politicians first and their supporters amongst intellectuals who pose the greatest threat to liberty. Dr. Thomas Sowell amply demonstrates this in his brand-new book, "Intellectuals and Society," in which he points out that: "Scarcely a mass-murdering dictator of the twentieth century was without his intellectual supporters, not simply in his own country, but also in foreign democracies ... Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Hitler all had their admirers, defenders and apologists among the intelligentsia in Western democratic nations, despite the fact that these dictators each ended up killing people of their own country on a scale unprecedented even by despotic regimes that preceded them."

While American politicians and intellectuals have not reached the depths of tyrants such as Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Hitler, they share a common vision. Tyrants denounce free markets and voluntary exchange. They are the chief supporters of reduced private property rights, reduced rights to profits, and they are anti-competition and pro-monopoly. They are pro-control and coercion, by the state. These Americans who run Washington, and their intellectual supporters, believe they have superior wisdom and greater intelligence than the masses. They believe they have been ordained to forcibly impose that wisdom on the rest of us. Like any other tyrant, they have what they consider good reasons for restricting the freedom of others. A tyrant's primary agenda calls for the elimination or attenuation of the market. Why? Markets imply voluntary exchange and tyrants do not trust that people behaving voluntarily will do what the tyrant thinks they should do. Therefore, they seek to replace the market with economic planning and regulation, which is little more than the forcible superseding of other people's plans by the powerful elite.

We Americans have forgotten founder Thomas Paine's warning that "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
 
Don't copy and paste that bull crap. You libertarians want to send working class to middle ages. If people, however are dumb enough to buy into it. They deserve what ever comes to them.
 
You call it bull crap because you can't intellectually dispute it. I don't want anyone sent to the middle ages. I want everyone to have the same opportunity to succeed on their on.
 
Bull crap, I have been disputing it. Same opportunity, OK. Keep a selling it. By the way, no you don't. Remember the ones according to you that don't make it are just lazy.
 
Sniperchoke - 3/25/2010 8:33 PM

The ones that don't make it need to re-educate or obtain a trade or skill so they can make it.

OK, smartest thing you have said all day.. Glad you are coming around.
 
Well, your bunch can keep throwing ankors, I am going to throw ropes, because that class of people are drowning. My opinion, have not forgot where I come from, trying not to leave them behind.
 
I normally don't reply to anything in this forum, but i can't help it...

I work for a fairly large public hospital in the area. The way they do our insurance, i think, is great. If you use nicotine in any capacity, or have someone on your plan who uses in any capacity (daily to once per year), your premium is higher than those who don't. Therefore, I pay a much smaller premium for my insurance as a result. We sign an affidavit stating this. A buddy of mine just recently got canned for failing a nicotine drug test. He knew the consequences, but decided to dip anyway. He was paying for the non-nicotine premium, but they caught him. I don't like paying for other people's habits out of my pocket.

I'm all for helping other people, that's in my blood. But when you can't take personal responsibility, where is the line drawn? I don't want the gov't taking more of my money and distributing it to people who WON'T do for themselves. Why should I pay for a smoker's healthcare? I'm all for helping out the less fortunate, and I do by donating to United Way and other charities

What's the incentive for working hard and providing for one's self?

I worked through high school so I could have a car and insurance/gas/et cetera. I sold my car to buy a computer for college. I earned a full academic scholarship to undergrad. I paid for graduate school via a graduate assistantship. I now work for a LIVING. I don't take handouts, I wasn't raised that way. Everything I have, I worked hard for.

I DO NOT like the gov't taking my hard earned money and giving it to people who WON'T do for themselves.

Sorry for the rant... emoHoppingmad
 
This thread iis a perfect example of what politicians love. Hard core Republicans and hard core Democrats fighting it out because of party loyalty. They love party liners and hate, no fear Independents who will vote for a canidate and not a party.Proud to call myself an Independent.
 

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