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I agree with you beetlespin, energy cost was another catalyst. I don't think many people living from pay check to pay check seen that coming, nor were they prepared. Many had to, or felt like they had to go to their credit cards to make ends meet. I just wonder how much paying at the pump factored into that? Beetlespin I am the posterchild of what you say caused the recession. Fortunatly for me, I have been able to hang on.
 
I'm sorry to hear that Possum obviously trusts the wrong people/organizations. I don't recall 100's or perhaps even thousands of people perishing during the Enron scandals as did when people trusted the Federal Gov't to save them from Hurricane Katrina. Katrina happens to be a perfect example of what can take place when the citizens rely on government control i.e. socialism. At least in the private sector you don't have all your eggs in one basket so to speak. The diversity of the private sector inherently protects from the few corrupt companies by spreading the risk to their competition. Look there will always be corrupt individuals in the private sector but a crook is a crook and more regulation is not going to prevent him from making immoral or illegal decisions. You can also apply this concept to the second amendment. We lose innocent people every year because we have a right to bear arms. This is the sacrifice the country makes in order to have freedom and I think it is a necessary sacrifice.
 
Sniperchoke - 12/1/2009 9:44 AM

I'm sorry to hear that Possum obviously trusts the wrong people/organizations. I don't recall 100's or perhaps even thousands of people perishing during the Enron scandals as did when people trusted the Federal Gov't to save them from Hurricane Katrina. Katrina happens to be a perfect example of what can take place when the citizens rely on government control i.e. socialism. At least in the private sector you don't have all your eggs in one basket so to speak. The diversity of the private sector inherently protects from the few corrupt companies by spreading the risk to their competition. Look there will always be corrupt individuals in the private sector but a crook is a crook and more regulation is not going to prevent him from making immoral or illegal decisions. You can also apply this concept to the second amendment. We lose innocent people every year because we have a right to bear arms. This is the sacrifice the country makes in order to have freedom and I think it is a necessary sacrifice.

Snip you are getting way off course. I thought we were talking about gov't role in economy. (Monetary and Fiscal policy) You are going somewhere else.
 
Doc1 - 11/30/2009 11:43 PM

Take a stroll in your favorite store and try to find Levis jeans, you can find them at a huge price, they are very popular but they are all made over seas, there is not one pair of jeans, no matter what the brand, that is made here, none. Check on carharts, the same story, wranglers, same story, lee jeans, same story. You ask what has happened to these factories? They are sitting empty, employees laid off to try and find other means of employment. Greed is the answer, pure and simple greed.

Here's several brands of American Made jeans: http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/jeans.htm
 
Possum you are smart enough to know that they all intertwine. If gov't has all the power and control over the economy and the private sector is more or less ineffective then who do citizens have to turn to in times of crisis but Gov't. Once you create a society dependant on its gov't that can lead democracies to morph to fascism and dictatorships.
 
Doc1 - 11/30/2009 11:04 PM I appreciate the history lessons. My question or the way I see things now a days is that there is very little produced in the USA, almost everything we use every day is imported from china, this means all the US dollars are going to china instead of staying here in the US, after a while we are going to run out of US dollars. Go into any store anywhere and try to find at least one item that is made here in the US. If the products are made here, so are the jobs, most jobs that are found are in the service industry, not manufacturing. All of our clothes and part of our food is imported, probably 90% of our oil, all of our electronics. I could go on and on but you get the picture.
</p>

You are mostly right, I just happen to think the taxation problems we face in this nation are making it far worse. By taxing the "rich", i.e., folks making over $250K or whatever it is now, you are taxing the vast majority of the small "working-class" business owners into going overseas. We wont get that back untill poilcies are changed, and fast. IMHO</p>
 
Sniperchoke - 12/1/2009 11:46 AM

Possum you are smart enough to know that they all intertwine. If gov't has all the power and control over the economy and the private sector is more or less ineffective then who do citizens have to turn to in times of crisis but Gov't. Once you create a society dependant on its gov't that can lead democracies to morph to fascism and dictatorships.

Well Snip you win, so to keep our democracy from morphing into fascism or dictatorship, I suppose we should first privatise the military. That would take a major tax burden off the people. Education next big one. Roads, crap should have thought of this before, lets sell all of them and who ever buys can set up toll roads, pay as you go. I wonder what we could get for Yellowstone national park? I think we could get this debt off us in no time. Privatise NASA. Do away with social security, medicade and medicare. I would like to have some property on Prentice Cooper. As a matter of fact why is the gov't paying hundreds of millions of dollars for a new lock at Chickamaga. Let the barge people pay for it. Come to think of it snip I don't really understand why I was debating you. Disaster strikes, let walmart, lowes, and home depot pay for it, they are the ones that profit from them. I can live without all of the above, and I am just getting started. I bet we could eliminate our debt by just selling our lakes. I will just pay to use them as I go. Sure beats paying taxes.
 
I know its hard to admit when your wrong. But have some confidence in yourself. You are certainly intellectual enough to do well without depending on the gov't. Just remember you are smarter than the majority of gov't officials so why would you want them making these important life decisions for you. In a free society if you work hard at something and are honest 99.9% of the time you will be successful.
 
I dont know ask some of the other members if I sound like a true American willing to work hard for what I have or just another jerk that is dependent on the gov't looking for handouts.
 
My political philosophy is most in sinc with the founding fathers philosophy of limited Gov't, checks and balances, low taxes, and little to no intrusion into citizens lives.
 
Actually our founding fathers in the beginning believed in limited gov't and low taxes, however it did not work. Articles of federation where two week because it did not give the Central gov't enough power, and failed. That is when we created the Constitution. I can talk about this all day. My favorite part of history. No, your political and economic phylosophy is probably more in line with Adam Smith He wrote a book "Wealth of Nations" sure you already know that.
 
Look we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe I can make my decisions for myself and you want govt to tell you how to run your life and what to spend your money on. Its just a difference in philosophy.
 
Why do you say I want the gov't to run my life. Where have I said I wanted the gov't to run my life. I make my own decisions. I do not hate my gov't. All this anti- government stuff is going to do is create another Timothy McVeay. Everytime a Democrate takes office we go through this same thing. We created 9 trillion in debt under two Republican Presidents. Reagan and Bush Jr. Since 1980 Democrat Presidents have only accounted for 3 trillion, 2 or it to just try and get us out of the mess the last guy created. Problem with alot of people if the Government is doing something to benifit me I am OK with it. If it does not, we do not need it. Think about that the next time you are out fishing in on a government owned lake. I am OK with agreeing to disagree however.
 
If you agree with Gov't run healthcare that is politicians making life and death decisions for you. If you agree with Gov't controlling the largest corporation in the world in GM and telling CEO's of companies how much they can make then that is more Gov't control. If you agree with the gov't controlling a large part of our financials then that is more control. Now these are all liberal talking points and if you agree with these points you do not want to make your own decisions. And thanks for comparing me to a mass murderer I will just compair you to the ultimate socialist Stalin.
 
There are a number of things wrong with Washington. One of them is that everyone is too far from home.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
 
Sniperchoke - 12/3/2009 5:34 PM

If you agree with Gov't run healthcare that is politicians making life and death decisions for you. If you agree with Gov't controlling the largest corporation in the world in GM and telling CEO's of companies how much they can make then that is more Gov't control. If you agree with the gov't controlling a large part of our financials then that is more control. Now these are all liberal talking points and if you agree with these points you do not want to make your own decisions. And thanks for comparing me to a mass murderer I will just compair you to the ultimate socialist Stalin.

I wasn't comparing you to a mass murderer. I am just saying it is this same anti gov't propaganda that inspired him to do what he did. Prime example of how you guys take it to far is what you said about helthcare. I have my own healthcare I have no business with GM, that is what GM choose to do, nobody twisted their arm to get gov't involved. I think if people have no healthcare, there should be another option. By the way Stalin was a communist dictator. Only solution I see Republicans have to anything they disagree on is to make people affraid of it.
 
Im not republican it matters little who is in control republican or democrat. The move to socialism is just much quicker with democrats in charge. And as far as healthcare goes forcing me to pay for someone who doesn't have healthcare boils down to slavery. I want to be able to choose who my charitable contributions go to instead of the gov't choosing for me.
 

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