Obamacare a BIG $h__ SANDWHICH!!!

[Sniperchoke]

First of all I would like to thank Chief Justice John Roberts in his Dereliction of Duty by ruling this mess constitutional. This law is so egregious I do not know where to begin. Lets start with the Rollout. A company in Canada that designed the web site obviously blew a crap load of our taxpayer $'s. Nothing has worked! People can't sign up. The sites crash. No answers on the help lines. etc... So our gov't is going to penalize citizens via the IRS for not signing up for healthcare on a web site that doesn't work??? Secondly none of Obama's promises about the law have been true. People cannot keep their Doctors, they can't keep their current Ins. Plan, and their Ins premiums are not falling. In fact 45 of the 50 states have had increases in their premiums. So we have to ask is there anything good about this law? Hopefully even Liberals at this point can see that the gov't at its best is a necessary evil. I would like to see one that would defend this monstrosity. In the name of safety we have given 17 % percent of our economy to the control of the most inept organization in our country. How did we let this happen?

 

[flpper]

Sniperchoke - 10/18/2013 9:47 PM

First of all I would like to thank Chief Justice John Roberts in his Dereliction of Duty by ruling this mess constitutional. This law is so egregious I do not know where to begin. Lets start with the Rollout. A company in Canada that designed the web site obviously blew a crap load of our taxpayer $'s. Nothing has worked! People can't sign up. The sites crash. No answers on the help lines. etc... So our gov't is going to penalize citizens via the IRS for not signing up for healthcare on a web site that doesn't work??? Secondly none of Obama's promises about the law have been true. People cannot keep their Doctors, they can't keep their current Ins. Plan, and their Ins premiums are not falling. In fact 45 of the 50 states have had increases in their premiums. So we have to ask is there anything good about this law? Hopefully even Liberals at this point can see that the gov't at its best is a necessary evil. I would like to see one that would defend this monstrosity. In the name of safety we have given 17 % percent of our economy to the control of the most inept organization in our country. How did we let this happen?

God is great. Beer is good. And people are stupid.

 

[spnplgr]

The AP announced today that just under 500,000 people have logged on to the web site, but they did not say how many have actually enrolled in a health plan. If enough people refuse to sign up, the thing will go belly up.

I saw an attorney on Fox News say that the only way the IRS can legally collect the fine for not enrolling is to withhold the money from a tax payers refund. Therefore, my advice to the young and healthy is: 1) do not enroll (so the thing will crash), and 2) reduce your withholding $ amount at work so you will have to pay a few bucks when filing taxes. That way they cannot collect the fine.

I believe if enough young, healthy people refuse to enroll, the thing will crash and burn.

 

[Liveliner]

Rest assured the people attempting to sign up are the ones wit pre-existing conditions and those un-insurable. The next wave will be the ones who will think that they with no real income will receive enough waivers to make their coverage rewarding. With what is happening I can not imagine anyone who has any income even attempting to enroll. Well just maybe some of the ignorant Liberals who supports this mess are about to get educated with a real wake-up call...
I only regret that I will not be able to gloat enough at the Whining Liberals when this hits home. Who are they going to Blame? The Republicans for failing in their attempts to unfund this disaster. Federal Reserve Total bankruptcy in July 2015

 

[outcaster]

You guys watch too much Fox News. My daughter (20) signed up last week thru the exchanges marketplace. Since she is a fulltime college student working only 15 to 18 hours per week, she qualifies for tax credits and subsidies making her monthly premium less expensive than it would be if I added her to my plan at work. She has a good plan now which her mom and I pay for. We saved about $40 buck per month.

 

[EricM]

Just curious Danny, who exactly do you think is paying for those credits and subsidies?

 

[outcaster]

EricM - 10/22/2013 3:47 PM

Just curious Danny, who exactly do you think is paying for those credits and subsidies?

You and me, the tax payer..... Just like the folks who don't have a boat and never use the tax payer funded boat ramps or nav bouys that you and I use. Or like the folks that send their kids to private school. They still have to pay taxes sent to public education. Thats how Civilization works. I pay for a lot of things thru taxes that I will never use, some I hope to never be in a situation to where I have to use them... But I'm glad those programs are there. Otherwise there is anarchy.

 

[Sniperchoke]

No there is not anarchy there is freedom. Freedom from govt. Freedom to do what we want with our hard earned money. Freedom from control. Freedom from tyranny. Why are u so afraid of freedom? I'm a big boy I sure as hell don't need some jackass in Washington taking care of me.

 

[outcaster]

Sniperchoke - 10/22/2013 9:10 PM

No there is not anarchy there is freedom. Freedom from govt. Freedom to do what we want with our hard earned money. Freedom from control. Freedom from tyranny. Why are u so afraid of freedom? I'm a big boy I sure as hell don't need some jackass in Washington taking care of me.

So I suppose you launch your boat from your own private ramp. You use the same public social services just like the rest of us. You crack me up.

 

[Sniperchoke]

So a public boat ramp and handing over 17% of the economy to the Feds. Pretty sure that's Apples and Oranges. Private sector will do it faster, better, and cheaper than the Govt ever has or will. Bottom line fed govt takes in more tax rev than it ever has and they still ask for more? The crack ups are the people that keep electing these bafoons!!

 

[EricM]

But nobody is MAKING you buy a ramp whether or not you want it or need it. Or punishing you if you don't buy a ramp. I am personally fine with paying a fee to use a private ramp. I really don't want or need to own one. It's not at all the same as a city street or basic education or a sewage disposal system. I don't think a boat ramp should be considered a necessary public social service. We have way too many things like this.

Health insurance is NOT a public social service and shouldn't be. It is a pool of private individuals betting that they will be better off financially if they each pay a relatively small amount of money up front and then be covered by the pool if something happens. Kind of a "free will" thing. Well, it was, anyway. Of course, the word "free" has now come to have a rather nasty connotation whenever the government is involved. How can we say something is free just because some OTHER folks are the ones forced to pay for it?

I don't think that you will get much argument about the fact that it is in the community's best interest, and therefore in our own best interest, to force and fund necessary public services. Don't try to use that as an argument, it has been pretty much settled an awful long time ago. What we are arguing about is just what those necessary public services are.

 

[spnplgr]

Yep, only those who will get a free ride will sign up because it is cheaper to pay the fine. Even the liberal who sees the high cost will balk when it is his money. After all, socialism only works when other peoples' money runs out.

 

[outcaster]

Eric, I respect your opinion but disagree with you. I believe healthcare should be a social public service. Mainly because the current "for profit" system is failing. The AHCA is a step in the right direction but doesn't go far enough in my view. You stated that you believe healthcare should not be a "social service". You are older than me, and if not already, you will be taking part in the Medicare system. Is that not a "social service"? Isn't that "socialized medicine"? You paid for that coverage thru payroll tax deduction while you were younger. There is nothing free about any social services. I think giving a college student making very little income, tax credits and subsidies to assist with the purchase health coverage is tax money well spent. She could go un-covered as some idiots on here have suggested and go to the free (for her)clinic or to the ER when she gets sick. One trip to the ER costs the taxpayers much more than the credits and subsidies for healthcare she receives.

 

[Sniperchoke]

The elderly today didn't pay for all their Medicare coverage. USA Today cited Urban Institute data sighting average Medicare figures at $88,000 paid in to $387,000, paid out respectively. Pretty good return on money but we have to borrow it from China. And our Children and Grandchildren will be on the hook. There is no Medicare or SSI lock box. Again at what point do we stop spending??

 

[EricM]

First of all Danny, I enjoy being able to debate with you. No name calling, and not necessarily just done on the "party lines". Good, honest, well-thought opinions. An attempt to point out issues without the rabid them-against-us mentality.

Of course, you're not only wrong but an idiot and .....(sorry, just had to go there).

Health care and health insurance are two completely different subjects. The first is a service and the other is one method of paying for it. You want to use them interchangeably but you can't.

For all intents and purposes, you want tax-funded healthcare and I want each individual to be responsible for their health coverage - or lack of it. You want to protect people by taxing others, I want it done through private initiative. You want large government to try to oversee the welfare of people. I want people to be responsible for themselves. I don't know what the answers are, or even if there really are true solutions. I suspect not, and that this will continue as long as there are people. What I do know is that every government/empire to date has eventually failed as people have relied more and more on government to take care of their needs through the redistribution of wealth. When people learn that they can get handouts, no matter how worthy the cause is (or seems), they will come to rely on them. Eventually the system can so longer be supported and fails. I believe we are coming to a point that is actually dangerous to this country and its citizens.

Scares the hell out of me.

 

[outcaster]

You're right I would like to see a "Single payer system", a Two Tier system would be ok, but at least we are going to a Mandate system. I just don't understand why my healthcare is a "product" to be bought and sold on the open market. Countries with a single payer system pay and average of 10% higher federal taxes than Americans. (not a 10% higher rate). I would certainly be in favor of paying 10% more in taxes. That amount is more than offset by me Not paying premiums, copays, deductibles, medical bills, and for prescriptions. With our employer based for profit health insurance system, every product and service the United States produces and exports has a "health insurance" added cost embedded in it. Imagine how much more competitive and profitable American companies would be without having that cost hidden in our products.

 

[spnplgr]

The European socialists, including England, are going broke due to socialist programs. They are in dire financial straights and have already begun the process of cutting back. That's why the Greeks have been rioting in the streets - they want the hand outs to continue. It is coming here like a runaway locomotive heading directly for us. If China decided to refuse to loan us any more $, that would start the ball rolling here. If the rest of the world suddenly decided the dollar is no longer the currency of choice, that would also start the ball rolling. There are a few other things that would start the ball rolling here. It is not a matter of IF it will happen, but is a matter of when.

When it does happen, the situation here will be like my dad said: "Root pig of die poor".

 

[Sniperchoke]

I charge that all should read Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. The Enumerated Powers are few and specific. As u can guess healthcare is not mentioned. It is unconstitutional. It is our Civil duty to disobey .

 

[beetlespin]

I am sure The new government run system is a for profit system as well. The doctors and hospitals will still make a profit. The insurance companies will still make a profit. The drug companies will still make a profit. And now the government will make a profit by taking more tax money from working people. The only people hurt by obamacare are the people that work.

 

[Sniperchoke]

My Mother who is 60 just got a letter from her Insurance BC/BS today saying they are canceling her policy. Wait it gets better.. They are offering her a new policy to replace the old with a estimated 10-40% increase in premiums. She pays $300. a month now for a high deductible catastrophic plan. So thanks Obama there's another $360 - $1440 a year she will have to pay for Ins. She's pretty tee' d off to say the least. Maybe she's just watching too much Fox News and over reacting???