Leftists, Progressives and Socialists

[Sniperchoke]

Outcaster,, maybe you need to read different history books then the ones gov't feeds you. What is not taught in history books is the Great Depression was caused by a massive government failure. The most important part of that failure were the actions by the Federal Reserve Bank that led to the contraction of the money supply by 25 percent. Then, in the name of saving jobs, Congress enacted the Smoot-Hawley Act in June 1930, which increased U.S. tariffs by more than 50 percent. Other nations retaliated and world trade collapsed. U.S. unemployment rose from 8 percent in 1930 to 25 percent in 1933. In 1932, the Herbert Hoover administration and a Democratic Congress imposed the largest tax increase in U.S. history, raising the top tax rate on income from 25 percent to 63 percent. The Roosevelt administration followed these destructive policies with New Deal legislation that massively regulated the economy and extended the Great Depression to after World War II.

 

[outcaster]

cheez - 11/18/2010 6:57 PM

outcaster - 11/18/2010 5:50 PM

The failures of the last decade are not the fault of the Gov't. Give me a break! The Glass Stegal legislation of 1999 made home ownership easier and more available, that's it! Actually some of the safegaurds were stripped away in 2003. What Wall St., Mortgage brokers, Real estate investors, and a multitude of stupid and mis-led home buyers and refinancers did to destroy the housing and banking market is simply CAPITALISM at its very worst. It's just much easier to blame big gubment. "The Gov't made us do it" argument is just silly.

The government is the one (Clinton and frank smoker) who made lending to unqualifed people possible. People who otherwise would never have been loaned money to buy a house. The mortgage companies only did it because they were forced to by the liberals.

Who is the chief author of the Bill that you are claiming to have forced lenders to make bad loans hmmm? Hint: He's not a Liberal. BTW Clinton negotiated provisions into this Bill that could have safeguarded against the very things that happened. Guess what happened to those provisions in 2003?
George W. Bush said it best.... "Wall St. got drunk"

 

[Sniperchoke]

Hey Outcaster here are some more recent failures of our gov't.. Most of our country's serious problems can be laid at the feet of Congress and the White House and not at capitalism. Take the financial crisis. One-third of the $15 trillion of mortgages in existence in 2008 are owned, or securitized by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, the Federal Housing and the Veterans Administration. Banks didn't mind making risky loans and Wall Street buyers didn't mind buying these repackaged loans because they assumed that they would be guaranteed by the federal government: read bailout by taxpayers. Under a capitalist system, financial institutions would not have been intimidated or encouraged into making risky loans and neither would they have been bailed out if they did so.

Social Security, Medicare and its coverage of prescription drugs have an unfunded liability that exceeds $100 trillion. When those roosters come home to roost, they will make the financial meltdown we've been though look like child's play.

 

[beetlespin]

The great depression was caused by excessive speculation by the masses. Regular people were buying stock on margin because the stock market was going up like gangbusters. When it fell it triggered massive margin calls which triggered a steep and deep downward spiral. There were a lot of similarities between the great depression and the current recession. This time the speculation was on housing and once again people and govt relied heavily on debt. The govt called it all a credit crisis but in reality credit standards just became normal again rather than just giving credit to anybody for anything.

 

[outcaster]

Sniperchoke - 11/18/2010 8:33 PM

Outcaster,, maybe you need to read different history books then the ones gov't feeds you. What is not taught in history books is the Great Depression was caused by a massive government failure. The most important part of that failure were the actions by the Federal Reserve Bank that led to the contraction of the money supply by 25 percent. Then, in the name of saving jobs, Congress enacted the Smoot-Hawley Act in June 1930, which increased U.S. tariffs by more than 50 percent. Other nations retaliated and world trade collapsed. U.S. unemployment rose from 8 percent in 1930 to 25 percent in 1933. In 1932, the Herbert Hoover administration and a Democratic Congress imposed the largest tax increase in U.S. history, raising the top tax rate on income from 25 percent to 63 percent. The Roosevelt administration followed these destructive policies with New Deal legislation that massively regulated the economy and extended the Great Depression to after World War II.

Wrong, yet once again. The Federal Reserve is not "Big Liberal Gubment" like you would have us believe. The Fed acts independent of the Gov't. It's decisions do not have to ratified by any President or Congress. It's members and chairman are almost always Wall St. insiders. Uh oh! that sounds like Capitalists. Using your own version of History, if the Fed was the main cause of the great depression.... since the Fed is independent of the President, Congress, and the American people...... and it's board members are all Wall St. moguls..... Then Capitalism failed us. Nice try, but no cigar.

 

[Sniperchoke]

beetlespin - 11/18/2010 8:15 PM

The great depression was caused by excessive speculation by the masses. Regular people were buying stock on margin because the stock market was going up like gangbusters. When it fell it triggered massive margin calls which triggered a steep and deep downward spiral. There were a lot of similarities between the great depression and the current recession. This time the speculation was on housing and once again people and govt relied heavily on debt. The govt called it all a credit crisis but in reality credit standards just became normal again rather than just giving credit to anybody for anything.

But Lance by April 1930, the stock market had recovered to its pre-crash level. So the depression was not caused by the stock market crash of Oct 1929.

 

[Sniperchoke]

outcaster - 11/18/2010 8:22 PM

Sniperchoke - 11/18/2010 8:33 PM

Outcaster,, maybe you need to read different history books then the ones gov't feeds you. What is not taught in history books is the Great Depression was caused by a massive government failure. The most important part of that failure were the actions by the Federal Reserve Bank that led to the contraction of the money supply by 25 percent. Then, in the name of saving jobs, Congress enacted the Smoot-Hawley Act in June 1930, which increased U.S. tariffs by more than 50 percent. Other nations retaliated and world trade collapsed. U.S. unemployment rose from 8 percent in 1930 to 25 percent in 1933. In 1932, the Herbert Hoover administration and a Democratic Congress imposed the largest tax increase in U.S. history, raising the top tax rate on income from 25 percent to 63 percent. The Roosevelt administration followed these destructive policies with New Deal legislation that massively regulated the economy and extended the Great Depression to after World War II.

Wrong, yet once again. The Federal Reserve is not "Big Liberal Gubment" like you would have us believe. The Fed acts independent of the Gov't. It's decisions do not have to ratified by any President or Congress. It's members and chairman are almost always Wall St. insiders. Uh oh! that sounds like Capitalists. Using your own version of History, if the Fed was the main cause of the great depression.... since the Fed is independent of the President, Congress, and the American people...... and it's board members are all Wall St. moguls..... Then Capitalism failed us. Nice try, but no cigar.

Lets take a vote who thinks the Fed acts independent of the Gov't?

The Federal Reserve System is the central bank of the United States. It was founded by Congress in 1913 to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role in banking and the economy has expanded.
Today, the Federal Reserve’s duties fall into four general areas:
•
conducting the nation’s monetary policy by inf luencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment,
stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
•
supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
•
maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
•
providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government,
and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system

Founded by congress, conducts the nations monetary policy, provides financial services to who? Oh yeah the U.S. Government. Give me a break.... Heres the kicker Website address www.federalreserve.gov... Check mate!!!!

 

[oggism]

cheez - 11/18/2010 7:42 AM

oggism - 11/17/2010 8:13 AM

cheez - 11/17/2010 7:57 AM

so I am a subject, care to elucidate on how I owe my allegiance rather than choose to pledge my allegiance?

Also I can understand your points and applaud you for expressing your rights nothing wrong with that at all and admire your conviction

I just believe that if you support a leader with whom you disagree that you are more of a subject than a citizen. By giving them support you are in essence saying that their agenda is right. This is simply my opinion. Now praying for them is the right thing to do. We are commanded to do so in the bible. Just as we are commanded to pray for all the lost people in the world.

I can understand that but citizen and subject are pretty much the same, just feel if you pray and dont support then its kind of hypocritic in my eye but thats just me

 

[Guest]

oggism - 11/19/2010 6:30 AM

cheez - 11/18/2010 7:42 AM

I can understand that but citizen and subject are pretty much the same, just feel if you pray and dont support then its kind of hypocritic in my eye but thats just me

Well I suppose I will have to spell it out for you since you are calling me a hypocrite. I pray that God will convict the heart of the errant leader. I pray that God will give them direction AWAY from their evil ways. I pray that the errant leader will come to their senses and repent of their evil ways before it is too late for them and our country.

Now if your eyes still see me as a hypocrite then there is nothing else I can do but pray for you.

 

[outcaster]

Simple queston...... Does any decision the FED makes have to be approved or ratified by any elected official, Liberal or conservative? They do not operated on behalf of the Gov't. Labeling the FED as "Big Socialist Gov't" is just a joke. Sniper you claim to have a degree in economics.... you should know better.

 

[oggism]

cheez - 11/19/2010 8:13 AM

oggism - 11/19/2010 6:30 AM

cheez - 11/18/2010 7:42 AM

I can understand that but citizen and subject are pretty much the same, just feel if you pray and dont support then its kind of hypocritic in my eye but thats just me

Well I suppose I will have to spell it out for you since you are calling me a hypocrite. I pray that God will convict the heart of the errant leader. I pray that God will give them direction AWAY from their evil ways. I pray that the errant leader will come to their senses and repent of their evil ways before it is too late for them and our country.

Now if your eyes still see me as a hypocrite then there is nothing else I can do but pray for you.

NO SIR I DID NOT CALL YOU A HYPOCRITE! and quite offended you would come to this conclussion based on my statement. You are a very inteligent individual with strong beliefs and I admire that a lot in fact. Heck I even admire your opinions. Because when it comes to personal beliefs there can be no hypocracy as what may be right for me may be wrong for you and vice versa which is cool nothing wrong with that we are each our own individual and allowed to think for ourselves. Perhaps my phraseology was off and if it was I do apologize and I do try very hard not to pass judgement as you are not, or will be seen as a hypocrite in my eyes today or ever.

 

[Sniperchoke]

outcaster - 11/19/2010 7:54 AM

Simple queston...... Does any decision the FED makes have to be approved or ratified by any elected official, Liberal or conservative? They do not operated on behalf of the Gov't. Labeling the FED as "Big Socialist Gov't" is just a joke. Sniper you claim to have a degree in economics.... you should know better.

Does any decision the EPA makes have to have a vote? Or for that matter FCC, FDA, etc??? There are many gov't agencies that make decisions that don't have to be voted on...

 

[outcaster]

Sniperchoke - 11/19/2010 10:35 AM

outcaster - 11/19/2010 7:54 AM

Simple queston...... Does any decision the FED makes have to be approved or ratified by any elected official, Liberal or conservative? They do not operated on behalf of the Gov't. Labeling the FED as "Big Socialist Gov't" is just a joke. Sniper you claim to have a degree in economics.... you should know better.

Does any decision the EPA makes have to have a vote? Or for that matter FCC, FDA, etc??? There are many gov't agencies that make decisions that don't have to be voted on...

Yes, It's voted on every 4 years in a Presidential election. The heads of those Departments are appointed by each President, and can be removed at any time for any reason. Sometimes department heads are asked to stay on under a new Admin. When you vote for a President, you must assume that he will appoint ones to these positions that share common liberal or conservative beliefs. So when you vote for a President, you are in effect voting also for the head of the FBI, CIA, Def Dept, State Dept, FCC, FDA, USDA, Attor. Gen, EPA, Noaa, FAA, Surgeon Gen., and Supreme Court Justices to name a few. Not so for the Federal Reserve. The Chairman of the FED testifies before Congress from time to time, but is in no way bound to what Congress or the President wants done, or not done

 

[spnplgr]

Beetlespin, it appears the quantative easing video has been removed from youtube.