First Post From Aqua Services, Inc., The Aquatic Herbicide Application Company

[BulletTJ]

Thanks for the info on the areas above Hwy. 60 bridge. I know from talking to guys about the grass we are fishing, while on the water, many of them refer to hydrilla and milfoil as milfoil. I am pretty sure they can see the difference but they use the milfoil title when talking about grass. Most people dont include coontail under the milfoil title. Thanks again for the information on the spraying. It saves me a wasted trip.

 

[churly]

Troy,

I have never seen eel grass in Chickamauga. Have you? Since it is native and good for fishing, why cant we introduce it to our reservoir, or would it quickly become invasive? As we go back and forth with this grass issue, I am trying to think of ways to replace any lost habitat. For instance, in the early 90's they planted cypress on the lower end to provide habitat. I personally dont see much benifit other than bank erosion as those trees only provide a little shade and a small trunk, they also grow very slow. One thing I was discussing with another fisherman was how the introduced willows to Kentucky Lake have done well and seem to provide a lot of habitat. If we lost all of the grass again, like we did in the early 90s. What would be the best habitat replacement for the fish? Just a thought....

 

[Rivermont Jeff]

troy goldsby - 7/7/2011 10:19 PM

Crizzel,

There is no question that Guntersville has a great fishery. It also has too much vegetation. Most agree about 17% coverage, of native vegetation, is the optimal amount. Guntersville has about 35% coverage of mostly exotics. Most in the area agree that more vegetation needs to be controlled. I have never said that vegetation is bad for a fishery, actually I have stated just the opposite. What I have said is that too much is a detriment to the fishery and when exotics are present, "too much" is reached much more quickly. In fact, once Hydrilla is topped out, it is no longer fishable and holds very few, if any fish. That is due to extremely high temperatures in those mats and very little oxygen. Just imagine what Guntersville could be with a little more focus actually placed on controlling the vegetation, and trying to maintain the vegetation at a more fish friendly level. Just imagine being able to fish coves impacted by Hydrilla by replacing that vegetation with a native like Vallisneria, also known as eel grass or tape grass. Much less invasive and much better habitat for a fishery. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Troy

In fact, once Hydrilla is topped out, it is no longer fishable and holds very few, if any fish. That is due to extremely high temperatures in those mats and very little oxygen.

Thanks for the information and your point of view. It is greatly appreciated. But this last statement is completely false. If you believe topped out hydrilla holds few fish you just dont know how to fish it. In fact I have caught more and bigger fish out of topped out hydrilla in the fall in 2 to 6' of water than any other situation. I do value your comments. Thanks

 

[churly]

That confuses me too Jeff, as I catch a lot of fish in topped out Hydrilla mats late in the year. I would rather fish topped out milfoil, but on Nick and Chick its mostly Hydrilla and the fish do use it. Another "scientific" question I have for Troy is; since photosynthesis is the respiration process for plants that involves absorbing Carbon dioxide and releasing oxygen to produce energy, how does it choke ot the area? I was always under the impression that grassy areas have higher oxygen content and thats the reason you can catch fish in it right now durring these hot temps...

 

[gobigorange]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBT0eZZi5k0

http://www.bassmaster.com/node/101044


Tim Horton showing you how good grass fishing can be and he mentions hydrilla

Quote from Tim Horton - This time of year, perhaps the overriding factor is cover. Horton points out that during summer, the best cover is vegetation in any form. "That's the first thing I look for when I plan to fish a lake during the summer," he explains.

"Hydrilla, milfoil, lily pads, water willow and anything else — look for the vegetation that grows the deepest. That's where you'll find the majority of the bass, and more times than not, they will be relating to the deeper cover."

 

[gobigorange]

http://www.bassmaster.com/node/96933

Great article that backs up alot of what Troy is saying.

 

[SpurHunter]

I admittedly do not know my water grasses at all, but have a question regaurding last summer. While fishing the mouth of the Hiwassee, right where it comes into the River, we were overwhelmed with dead floating grass coming downstream. This would have been either July or August. Would that have been from a spraying above there? What happens to the grass when you spray? Does it come apart and float, or sink, etc? Thanks

 

[BulletTJ]

I think the comment of topped out hydrilla becomes unfishable is due to not knowing the proper lure to use for fishing it. You cant throw a crankbait on top of it, but a rat, frog or a weightless worm works great. I guess that is one of the things that gets me. It isnt ok to use a generic term for aquatic plants, that is WRONG. But because you cant fish a deep diving crankbait into topped out hydrilla it is CORRECT to call it unfishable. Throwing a frog on top of hydrilla, milfoil or coontail that has matted is some of the most exciting fishing there is. If you have a bad heart DO NOT try this. I love to watch the bass blow up on the bait. I have caught HUGE bass out of matted grass that was thicker than the grass on my lawn. Statements that are made about it being unfishable are just not TRUE. This makes me wonder what else isnt TRUE. I too am thankful for some of what Troy has said. I have learned some useful things from Troy, but I DON'T AGREE with the use of chemicals to kill the grass. I also wonder how long an exotic grass has to be present before it can be considered native. I have lived in this area for 52 years and as long as I can remember the milfoil and hydrilla have been present. Dad said they were here when he was a kid. I guess that makes me an exotic and not a native. emoLaugh

 

[troy goldsby]

Spurhunter,

It typically falls to the bottom and decomposes. Some will float, but not typically in large mats. What you saw was probably from a rain event, wave action, or water level fluctuations. Also could have been natural plant mortality. It will sometimes gather in a cove and when the wind or the current changes, it will move out.

Troy

 

[troy goldsby]

BulletTJ,

I still don't think you know one from the other. Maybe I'm wrong on that point, but you haven't proven to me that you know your plant species. What I do know is that topped out Hydrilla is not good fishing, it is too thick, too hot, has too little oxygen, and hold very few if any fish, especially "lunkers".

Troy

 

[troy goldsby]

Churly,

Plants also take in oxygen, not just carbon dioxide. Also, hot water holds less oxygen than cold water. So, in the summer, when it is hot, the most desirable location for fish is not heated mats of vegetation. When several hot cloudy days are followed by hot nights, the plants have photosynthesized very little and have not compensated for the oxygen they and other organisms have utilized, fish kills are the result.

Troy

 

[fishinvol]

I can tell you, I do know the differance in the plants. Now when the hydrilla is up super shallow, it can be too thick to really catch anything, but when I find on river channel edges and places where it's a tad deeper. It hold plenty of fish. It's great to flip in and have caught plenty of good bass out of it.

 

[troy goldsby]

Churly,

Any aquatic can be invasive but some are certainly better than others. Natives can certainly be planted but you still have to check with the proper agencies before doing so. I have not seen Vallisneria on Chickamauga but I have on G'ville and Nickajack. It can cause problems but it is a much more desirable habitat for fish. I am not sure which willow you are talking about, there are several things referred to as willow. One we recommend in private impoundments is Justicia americana or water willow weed. It grows about 4 feet out of the water with a long narrow leaf and a purple flower. It can certainly be invasive but provides great habitat in private lakes and can be controlled easy in private impoundments. It typically doesn't grow in water deeper than 2'. There again, before moving or planting any species, call the proper authorities, the TWRA, and TDEC.

Troy

 

[BulletTJ]

Tim Horton is a master at fishing grass and is a Professional fisherman. I dont understand how he and many of us do so great fishing the unfishable grass. Troy says there wont be any large bass in the grass because of the heat and other factors. The mat offers shade and ambush points for the bass. I dont understand how someone that wants to be taken serious can REPEATEDLY tell us that the grass is unfishable. There are TV shows, tournaments won and we have ACTUAL experience catching large bass out of matted grass. I got to stop reading this, it is starting to drive me crazy. Troy tellin me that matted grass is bad for fishing is like him tellin me that Jack & Coke wont get me drunk. My EXPERIENCE tells me he is wrong. I do see where matted grass in a small pond with no flowing water could cause and issue but this entire thread has been about what the grass is doing to the Chickamauga. Troy please continue to educate us on your job and company but please stop tell us we cant fish the mat. There are thousand if not millions of fisherman that do it all the time. In October of this year there will be at least 100 of us going to Guntersville for 3 days. The sole purpose of this trip is to fish the matted grass. The merchants in Scottsboro are going to reap the benifits of the matted grass. The last time the wife and I made this trip we spent at least $500.00. Multiply that by the number of people making the trip and it will give you an idea of the revenue it brings their local economy. This is just one small group on one weekend. It happens every weekend there. WITHOUT the grass we would not be going to Scottsboro.

 

[troy goldsby]

Gobigorange and Bullettj,

Gobigorage -- thanks for the article, it is a good one. I have seen that presentation by Dr. Maceina.

Bullettj -- you should read the article posted by gobigorange. If you won't listen to me maybe you will listen to one of the most respected fisheries biologist in the world, Dr. Maceina. Fish what you want to fish, I don't care. However, it is a fact that Hydrilla is not a desirable species and holds far fewer fish than other forms of vegetation.

Troy

 

[DaytonBoatDock]

Spur,
That is spiny leaf niad or star grass. When the water gets the hottest (july and august) it dies and starts floating off.

 

[BulletTJ]

Thanks for the post gobigorange. Troy that is great information. I have been fishing on Guntersville when Professor Maceina and his students were doing studies on the lake. I have spoken with them, answered their questions about my fishing day on numerous occasions. I was surprised that the application of chemicals seemed to have little to no effect on the pond bass. I did notice that NO WHERE did he say that matted grass was unfishable. I still feel that no chemicals appiled to the water is healthier than some amount that is deemed safe today. Who knows if it will cause health issues 10 or 20 years from now? If you read the information it also stated how benefical the grass is to the bass. The issue of to much grass for a pond or lake I understand as well. The issue I have had with this entire topic is I dont believe Chickamauga has anywhere near the 30% coverage of the lake. I can remember having grass lining the river channels from Harrison Bay to the Cotton Port area above Hwy. 60 bridge. The bass fishing in the lake was great with that amount of grass. We have no were near that volume of grass now. If you drive up the river channel now you dont see the mats. This isnt my opinion it is something you used to see that is gone now. I understand what Professor Maceina is saying about to much grass in some lakes. I just dont think Chickamauga is anywere near that level of grass. I feel this way because of my past experience with Chickamauga and levels the grass used to be at without hurting fishing. I believe you apply your chemicals at approved levels and that you stay within the 100' distance from docks. I know your a business man and you are not going to spray more than you are getting paid to spray because you will be giving the chemicals away. I just hope and pray the grass on the main lake body gets left alone. I wish you the best. I would simply prefer that no chemicals were being used on our lake. I am moving on now. Thanks again for the spraying information on spraying above hwy. 60 bridge. I will post our fishing report sometime this weekend.

 

[troy goldsby]

BulletTJ,

10 percent to 30 percent was what the article said, I used 17 percent. I don't know what the coverage is on chickamauga, but I will find out. The general consensus is that anything over 17 percent is too much. Also, the term "grass" is way to generic and is used in reference to any aquatic vegetation. As I have stated, some natives, even topped out, hold many times more fish than exotics, especially If the exotic is Hydrilla. There is no question that if topped out mats were replaced with some species of natives, the bass population would be larger, more healthy, and the catch per hour would be greater.

We are only controlling aquatic vegetation around fixed structures, quit worrying about open water areas.

I hope you have a good weekend fishing and I hope we can further this discussion at some point in the future. I will try and inform you of meeting that may be of benefit in the future.

Troy

 

[troy goldsby]

To all,

This may be off the subject a little, or maybe not. With all the discussion about what some believe herbicides do to fish and fishing, I thought a thread about the effects of a fishing tournament on bass might be of some interest. Glad I looked through the other threads. Check it out.

http://www.chattanoogafishingforum.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56477&start=1

Troy

 

[soggysod]

I just want to echo some of the thanks to Troy in the earlier threads regarding his posting on here. I do want to remind some of these folks arguing about how much of the grass is fishable with or without frogs, and punching the mats etc....that some of us like to catch crappie, small mouth, hybrids and whites, stripe, catfish, panfish, and even in some cases carp or gar. Topped out grass beds will flat out ruin a slough for any of this type of fishing, any of which other than perhaps the smallies, would be loaded up in these same sloughs and off limits. I strongly agree with keeping it in check, while some folks would love to see the Chick as a solid grass mat other than the channel. But many of us love to spend time on the water, fishng for just about anything that might be running at that time, skiing, jet skiing, letting the kids swim (and they hate swimming in the grass) or just floating around enjoying life!
Many of these old timers remember with great romance all the grass on Chick, personally I did like it, but also remember catching 100 plus bass a day and getting lucky if one was 2 lbs..
Now we have a great fishery, a few months ago on here we were going on and on with the FLW tourney about how much better it is than Nick, or perhaps even beloved grass choked gunntersville.
You can spend a day on the water skiing, swimming, or it isnt beyond the realm of possibility to catch a few fish over 4 i see 8s and 9s on here all the time, or catch 30 nice 2lb lms and spots on the jumps, hit the same spot later in the year and load the boat with TARP crappie, or run out to the bluffs and get a 5lb smallie. Many of the guys on here load up with 50lb blues at the nuke, and 50lb flatties noodling. Close off the sloughs with grass and the palm sized shell cracker my daughter loves to catch will be VERY hard to get to. point being, this fishery is getting damn near phenomenal, and we dont have tons, of grass, and everyone can use it for whatever! I dont think dock owners having access to thier docks due to selective spraying is going to shut it down for the guys who love large mouth!
and regarding the "chemicals" that oil slick behing the bass boat when you fire it up, the lunker sauce you spray on your jig, sun block you spray on, grease from your trailer bearings, there are TONS of chemicals that make it into our water ways, but mother nature is very good at cleaning her self up!
I dont see anyone here proposing chick be a kayak only lake to reduce oil emmsions in the water, that WOULD greatly help the water quality! afterall, 1mpg in a 250hp bullet chopping up the grass and bait fish running 80mph DOES NOTHING to help the environment!
Soggysod