First Post From Aqua Services, Inc., The Aquatic Herbicide Application Company

Chattanooga Fishing Forum

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Churly, finbully, jellyworm, and some others,

Thanks for the support and it is goodto know that some appreciate and will utilize the truth. Churly is correct about the permitting in other states. Many states, like Alabama, mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, and many others do not require aquatic herbicides application permits and we are not bound to a 100' distance from fixed structures. However, in most cases we still adhere to that 100' distance. Tennessee has had a permit for about 11 years and in the past year it has become very cumbersome.

Anyway, if there are any questions I can answer just let me know. And thanks again to those of you who have listened and asked honest questions.

Troy
 
I am sorry I said I was done with this but it is like listening to a politician. Troy ANY question is an HONEST question. A question CAN NOT be dishonest. The answer to the question can be and is often twisted, misleading or dishonest. Several times you have said that killing milfoil and other exotic grass helps fishing by making the area fishable. Milfoil is fishable, we use rat and frog baits to fish it. After the grass has been killed it may be easier for someone to fish the area that doesnt know how to fish. But after the grass has been sprayed and killed there is no need to fish the area. The fish lost their cover and have left the area. This is not a lie but an observation I have made from over 30 years of fishing for bass. I will give and example later in this post to back up this FACT. According to the dicitionary herbicides are poisions. People on here and I am one of them that have said the word dumping in reference to chemicals placed in the water. I have read every post you made and I think you take issue with the word dumping. I think you call it applying the chemical. The TRUTH you make reference to, is the results are the same. Dumped or applied the chemical ends up in our water. This is not a lie. You place the chemical in the water. You say it is perfectly safe by set standards. I look at this like radiation exposure. There is a certain exposure level the government says is safe. But any SANE person that wasnt profiting from it would admit ZERO radiati exposure or application of a non natural chemical to the water is BETTER, SAFER and HEALTHIER than on single drop applied. I understand you make your living doing this. I also know you are not going to agree that the water would be more natural and safer if chemicals werent used. You are also not going to admit milfoil is great for fishing because you make a profit from spreading the word it isnt. You are either miss informed how great rat and frog fishing is or your comment about fishing it would fall in to the LIE catagory. If you think that your past statement about the grass hurting fishing on Chickamauga are true, you are WRONG. This FACT is based on my 30 something years experience fishing on Chickamauga. Before you make reference to some lake in Florida that killing grass helped. We are NOT concerned with this lake in Flordia. This is about Chickamauga. Here is another TRUTH. I was catching fish in the Chester Frost area before you applied your chemicals to the approved areas. Just for a test we fished those areas last night. Not one bite, we saw no bait fish in the area either. We moved to other areas of the lake with the same water depth and caught fish, oh but wait those areas havent been sprayed yet because there was still grass there. Like I said before I am not saying you dont know how to do your job. I have no doubt you do and that you do a good job. The problem many of us have with it is the job of applying ANY poisions or herbicides to the water. There are safer ways to deal with the grass. They are not always cheapest or easiest but that is usually the case with most things in life. You usually get what you pay for and sometime what you get years later wasn't what you expected. If there is going to be a mistake made with this great lake I would prefer to err on the the side of TOTAL safety and not appling ANY foreign CHEMICALS to the water that doesn't make the water safer. Thank you for spend so much of your time on here dealing with this issue. The best thing I get from it is that while you are on here stating you opinions, and that is what they are, they are just you opinions. You are here and not on the lake applying your chemicals. Thanks Again.
 
BulletTJ,

Any invasive aquatic plant can be detrimental to a fisher, especially exotics, yes milfoil, and the worst on Chickamauga is hydrilla. Whether it be Florida or Tennessee, the result is the same, too much vegetation is bad, especially exotics. Those are facts. I can't help that you are inept at fishing, but your sampling methods are far from scientific and I can assure you, if an electrofishing boat had followed your attempts at fishing a few nights ago, you would have seen hundreds of fish you missed. Just because you have been fishing for 30 years doesn't meanness you are a good fisherman. And it certainly doesn't make you an authority on fish behavior, predator prey relationships, how aquatic plant affect those relationships, or the ill effects caused by aquatic plants. Those are the facts.

If you don't like fishing where I apply aquatic herbicides, move 100'. You will find plenty of uncontrolled aquatic plants. That is also a fact.

One last fact, I can multitisk. I blogged today and applied EPA approved aquatic herbicide on Chickamauga today, utilizing a legal permit issued by the state of Tennessee. I'll look for your next post.

Troy
 
You crack me up Troy. I never said I didnt catch fish last night. Just not where you sprayed and we looked around the lighted docks where you sprayed no minnow, no blue gills and no bass. We SAW the fish in non sprayed areas. We are having to look for milfoil in Chickamauga. If you are having trouble find something I doubt there is to much of it. As for my fishing skills. You have NO IDEA how good or bad at it I am. I think my truthful comments and HONEST observations over the 30 years of fishing this lake blew up your smoke and mirrors. Seems I struck a nerve so since you have no FACTUAL evidence about fishing this lake past and present, you resort to attacking me and trying to insult me. DUDE you cant do that because I know you havent got a CLUE about bass fishing or you would have never said the grass makes the water unfishable. Stick to spray your chemicals and stop tryin to tell fisherman about fishing because this is just one more of the things you spew about and dont have a clue. If there is any milfoil left in the lake when you are finished and you want a LESSON in fishing the unfishable grass, I will to TEACH you how, for a fee that is. But hey I wont make you get a permit, but you will need a fishing license. Send me a PM if you want to take me up on the offer. emoLaugh
 
BulletTJ,

No attacks, just facts about your so called factual sampling methods.

As for spraying, I will continue and I will let my fisheries clients be the judge of what I know about fisheries. They are pleased and catching fish regulary that you seek for years.

I'll look for your future posts. However, you do appear to be someone that is not concerned with the truth. By the way, are you sure you know the difference in milfoil and hydrilla? I'm not saying that sarcastically, I just don't see a lot of milfoil on chickamauga, mostly north of the 60 bridge. Let me know.

Troy
 
troy goldsby - 7/6/2011 10:43 PM

BulletTJ,

Any invasive aquatic plant can be detrimental to a fisher, especially exotics, yes milfoil, and the worst on Chickamauga is hydrilla. Whether it be Florida or Tennessee, the result is the same, too much vegetation is bad, especially exotics. Those are facts. I can't help that you are inept at fishing, but your sampling methods are far from scientific and I can assure you, if an electrofishing boat had followed your attempts at fishing a few nights ago, you would have seen hundreds of fish you missed. Just because you have been fishing for 30 years doesn't meanness you are a good fisherman. And it certainly doesn't make you an authority on fish behavior, predator prey relationships, how aquatic plant affect those relationships, or the ill effects caused by aquatic plants. Those are the facts.

If you don't like fishing where I apply aquatic herbicides, move 100'. You will find plenty of uncontrolled aquatic plants. That is also a fact.

One last fact, I can multitisk. I blogged today and applied EPA approved aquatic herbicide on Chickamauga today, utilizing a legal permit issued by the state of Tennessee. I'll look for your next post.
Troy
Click to expand...

So if the exotic grass like milfoil, hydrilla, coontail etc. etc. is bad for a fishery and a angler then why is Guntersville rated one of the best bass lakes in the world? I mean it has 10+ times as much exotic grass than Chickamauga..
 
Crizzel - 7/7/2011 4:27 AM
troy goldsby - 7/6/2011 10:43 PM BulletTJ,
Click to expand...
So if the exotic grass like milfoil, hydrilla, coon tail etc. etc. is bad for a fishery and a angler then why is Guntersville rated one of the best bass lakes in the world? I mean it has 10+ times as much exotic grass than Chickamauga..
Click to expand...
</p>

<font face="georgia,palatino" size="2">Before you start spouting off about "exotics" you might want to know which plants are "invasive" and which plants are native. Coon tail moss is a native along with various forms of American pond weed. Asian Milfoil and hydrilla are invasive and can be quite detrimental to a fishery if they are allowed to completely take over. Another lake "killer"is Giant Salvinia, this plant has already been found in Texas, Louisiana,and Georgia. It grows so thick that a fishing boat can not get through it period.</font></p>

<font face="Georgia" size="2">Just because it is green, does not mean it is a grass. Know the difference in whether it is a moss, fern, or sedge. Here is a web-site with all of the invasives and natives: http://www.invasiveplantatlas.org/aquatics.html</font></p>
 
Carl,

Great post, you beat me to it. Thanks for the support and facts. Good idea to post the link also, folks need to what they are looking at and which plant are which. Thanks again.

Troy
 
Since Guntersville is being mentioned here I will say this.

Guntersville landowners have been spraying their docks since the 1980s, every year owners in Roseberry, Mink, Boshart, and South Sauty consistantly spray. The grass on Guntersville is still strong as ever in the back waters, and coming along well on the river channel.

Typically Guntersville has a poor grass crop the years with HEAVY spring rains, i.e. this year and last. Its cyclical with the rains.
 
Yes Troy I know the difference between the two. You fish both of them the same way and YES we catch fish out of hydrilla as well as milfoil. I have a fairly large pond in behind my house Troy. The shallow area had silted in to less than 2 feet deep. Water willows and cattails had filled in the area. This made it difficult for the neighbor hood kids to fish. I researched how to remove the willows and some of the cat tails. I had two pond management companies come and look at the pond. They gave me a list of the chemicals they would use, if that is the method I wanted to go. I asked if there were any other was to deal with them. BOTH companies said that if the pond was theirs they would dredge the shollows slightly. After looking at the chemicals and warnings that came with them I chose to take the HEALTHY way. They said to prevent animals from drinking the water for a few days after application. Dogs, deer, hawks and children use my pond daily. That is part of the reason I dont like spraying chemicals in the lake. I treat the lake the way I treat the pond, with respect. I try and leave the lake looking better than it did when I started the day. Picking up trash that is in the lake is something I do on a regular bases. Saying that spraying a chemical to kill grass in the water is a good idea would make me a LIAR. Everyone knows that it is the cheapest way NOT THE SAFEST way to deal with the grass. It cost me about 4 times as much to dredge the pond verses spraying it.
But you know everytime I look out the window the kids are fishing in the dredged end because that is where most of the fish are now. We dug it in levels to add contour to the pond. Fish NEED cover for habitat. Without cover a 5 lb. bass will spend more energy chasing a shad in open water than he will gain if somehow he were to catch the shad. This is a FACT not my opinion. Burn more calories than you take in you lose weight. Chickamauga is a old lake. Most of the original cover is gone now. That is why you see people doing projects to install trees and other fish attracting things in the water. Milfoil, hydrilla and other grass also fall into the habitat for bass. I understand about dock owners not wanting it around their docks. Dredging would take care of the problem, provide them with deeper water around their docks, give contour to the bottom. Not to mention dredging doesnt involve using chemicals. This would make the fishing better around the docks, it sure worked in my pond. I understand your not in the dredging business so that is not going to be an option you would like to see but I thought part of your argument was you are doing what is best for the water. You are doing what is best for TROY and that also another TRUTH. I have noticed anytime that you don't like something someone says you say they are lying or you attack them some how. I NEVER said I took samples of the fish after you sprayed. I said we caught no fish in the area nor did we observe and other fish in the area. That area was the ONLY area we didnt catch fish from. We saw fish at every other dock that had lights on it. If you remove the cover the fish were using and the fish have the ability to move they will move. Oh and just for the record, I left some cattails and I placed more stumps and brush in the water to make up for removing the willows. See I was trying to IMPROVE the water for fishing not make it look like a fish bowl.
 
Troy I have a HONEST SERIOUS question for you. I have a friend from out of town that is here and I plan on taking him fishing Saturday. You mentioned that you knew there was milfoil above hwy. 60 bridge. My question is have you sprayed it yet? He wants to rat fish and I hate to make the run up there if you have sprayed it.
As for your last post YES I know the difference between milfoil and hydrilla. They are both exotic grasses. The milfoil term is often used for both, sort of like Kleenex is used for tissue. I didnt think we needed to split hairs. There is more hydrilla on the lower end of the lake than milfoil but they both hold fish. Thanks for answering the question on spraying above hwy. 60.
 
Troy, I don't have any new questions. Just wanted to thank you for starting this thread and trying to put some information out there to alleviate some of our concerns. You're the professional here and I can only hope that what you say is accurate and true. Thanks again for the information.
 
Carl Guffey - 7/7/2011 6:24 AM



Crizzel - 7/7/2011 4:27 AM
troy goldsby - 7/6/2011 10:43 PM BulletTJ,
Click to expand...
So if the exotic grass like milfoil, hydrilla, coon tail etc. etc. is bad for a fishery and a angler then why is Guntersville rated one of the best bass lakes in the world? I mean it has 10+ times as much exotic grass than Chickamauga..
Click to expand...
</p>

<font face="georgia,palatino" size="2">Before you start spouting off about "exotics" you might want to know which plants are "invasive" and which plants are native. Coon tail moss is a native along with various forms of American pond weed. Asian Milfoil and hydrilla are invasive and can be quite detrimental to a fishery if they are allowed to completely take over. Another lake "killer"is Giant Salvinia, this plant has already been found in Texas, Louisiana, and Georgia. It grows so thick that a fishing boat can not get through it period.</font></p>

<font face="Georgia" size="2">Just because it is green, does not mean it is a grass. Know the difference in whether it is a moss, fern, or sedge. Here is a web-site with all of the invasives and natives: http://www.invasiveplantatlas.org/aquatics.html</font></p>
Click to expand...


Why didn't you answer the question? I could care less about what grass is native etc etc.. For all I care they could spray the whole lake and get rid of all the grass..
 
BulletTJ,

I have never heard anyone refer to hydrilla as milfoil or milfoil as hydrilla. "Milfoil" should never be used in reference to both species. To use their names interchangeably is just wrong. I have not sprayed above the 60 bridge this year except for Mud Creek. There was no milfoil in my treatment areas.

Troy
 
Crizzel,

There is no question that Guntersville has a great fishery. It also has too much vegetation. Most agree about 17% coverage, of native vegetation, is the optimal amount. Guntersville has about 35% coverage of mostly exotics. Most in the area agree that more vegetation needs to be controlled. I have never said that vegetation is bad for a fishery, actually I have stated just the opposite. What I have said is that too much is a detriment to the fishery and when exotics are present, "too much" is reached much more quickly. In fact, once Hydrilla is topped out, it is no longer fishable and holds very few, if any fish. That is due to extremely high temperatures in those mats and very little oxygen. Just imagine what Guntersville could be with a little more focus actually placed on controlling the vegetation, and trying to maintain the vegetation at a more fish friendly level. Just imagine being able to fish coves impacted by Hydrilla by replacing that vegetation with a native like Vallisneria, also known as eel grass or tape grass. Much less invasive and much better habitat for a fishery. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Troy
 
Troy while I dont agree with using chemicals for treatment, I REALLY do appreciate your input here. I have learned some things, even though we dont agree, I am more educated about what is going on with our fishery.
 
SpurHunter - 7/7/2011 10:25 PM

Troy while I dont agree with using chemicals for treatment, I REALLY do appreciate your input here. I have learned some things, even though we dont agree, I am more educated about what is going on with our fishery.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, he has helped me identify the different types of vegetation, and I appreciate the input.
 

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